Several persistent rumors have been going around the usenet require
clarification. First of all, I would like to make clear that I have
never had any contact with the mafia whatsoever. Secondly, it is not
true that my ex-wife Eva’s Uncle Sal "barely tolerated" me. Sal loved
me like a son and got all torn up when Eva and got divorced."
And one more thing…I’ve something to say to the punk who made the
site at:
http://doncicero.aussie7.com/
"David Griffin, you little pipsqueak, don’t forget, you have a family
and I know where you live. No one would want to see anybody get hurt."
Chic Cicero
<chic_cic…@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1129132206.859573.182830@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com…
> Several persistent rumors have been going around the usenet require
> clarification. First of all, I would like to make clear that I have
> never had any contact with the mafia whatsoever. Secondly, it is not
> true that my ex-wife Eva’s Uncle Sal "barely tolerated" me. Sal loved
> me like a son and got all torn up when Eva and got divorced."
> And one more thing…I’ve something to say to the punk who made the
> site at:
> http://doncicero.aussie7.com/
> "David Griffin, you little pipsqueak, don’t forget, you have a family
> and I know where you live. No one would want to see anybody get hurt."
> Chic Cicero
Hi Chic.
I see you changed your email address without telling me. It *is* you isnt it
Chic? LOLOL
A
Grrrrrrr. Just wait until I get my hands on Griffin. The Quaquaraqua
has posted the Don Cicero site all over the fraggin’place!
http://members.fortunecity.com/doncicero/
Griffin, you are dead meat!
Chic
The aforereferenced site has been misattributed to David Griffin who is
not its author. Misattribution of statements, sites, etc. have become
quite commonplace in the ongoing defamation campaign against him and
the Rosicrucian Order of A+O. This post is obviously designed to
elicit sympathy Mr. Cicero’s to assist him with fund raising for his
faltering frivolous law suit against the A+O.
The referenced post is but the latest in an ongoing defamation campaign
being waged against the Rosicrucian Order of AO and its Chief Adept,
Mr. David Griffin. This defamation campaign has been conclusively
linked to Mr. Robert Zink, lisenced by Chic Cicero, by the publication
of statements made by Mr. Zink on the Esoteric Order of the Golden Dawn
web site and public Yahoo forum. A brief resume of a small selection of
the evidence linking Mr. Zink, licensed by Mr. Cicero to the ongoing
defamation campaign follows below, with URL links for easy
authentication of his authorship of statements attributed to him.
Why is this defamation waged against Mr. Griffin and the A+O? David
Griffin is the owner of the European and Canadian Hermetic Order of the
Golden Dawn trademark and co-owner of the HOGD trademark in the USA by
contractual agreement, and the leader of the Hermetic Order of the
Golden Dawn, the Outer Order of the Rosicrucian Order of A+O. Attacks
broke out against Mr. Griffin following his having received
documents regarding the teachings of the Grades beyond the Second Order
for which the RR+AC must prepare the Adept. This permitted Mr. Griffin
to reform of the A+O’s Second Order (RR+AC) so that it correctly
prepares the Adept for higher teachings beyond the Grade of 7=4, and
supplementing materials which had been revealed by Crowley and
published by Regardie with materials from earlier Rosicrucian sources
under the guidance of a physical, ancient, and secret, European
alchemical order.
A number of American orders using only materials published by Regardie
felt clearly threatened by the A+O’s successful reformation of the
RR+AC, integrating substantial magical and alchemical materials from
earlier, Rosicrucian sources under the guidance and tutelage of an
extremely secretive and ancient, continental European alchemical order.
This was necessary due to the publication of the formerly secret,
magical teachings of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn by Aleister
Crowey and Israel Regardie. Several esoteric orders which teach little
more than these well known and published materials, obviously felt
threatened by Mr. Griffin’s accomplishment, particularly Chic Cicero of
the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, Inc. In response, Mr. Cicero
formed an alliance against the Rosicrucian Order of A+O by licensing
several groups to use the HOGD trademark, including groups which
practice dubious forms of astral or self-initiation, mix the published
teachings of the HOGD with Taoism and Aleister Crowley’s Thelema, and
in the case of EOGD whose leader is of questionable moral character
In a further attack on the Rosicrucian Order of A+O, Mr. Cicero
recently filed a frivolous lawsuit against the A+O in US Federal Court,
in a attempt to deprive the A+O of its legitimate trademark rights to
the name of its outer order, the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn in
the USA, despite Mr. Cicero’s decade old, contractual obligations with
the A+O in this regard. Mr. Cicero recently suffered severe legal
setbacks in this litigation, thus spawning intensified defamation
attacks against both the A+O and its Chief Adept, David Griffin, on the
internet. It is only in the light of these events that one can better
understand the orchestrated internet defamation campaign promoted by
Cicero lisencee, Robert Zink.
Below follows a synopsis of a part of the evidence linking Robert Zink,
sponsored by Chic Cicero, to the ongoing defamation campaign against
David Griffin and the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn (A+O). These
are not fabricated statements. URL links are included so that Mr.
Zink’s authorship, under his well known aliases as as Zanoni49 and
Frater PDR, may be easily verified:
In response to having been linked to the ongoing defamation campaign
against Mr. Griffin and the A+O, Mr. Zink recently published
a disingenuous appeal to end what he called the "nasty flame wars,"
stating at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/golden-dawn-forum/message/16986
"The Esoteric Order of the Golden Dawn is against any internet flame
wars and or propaganda websites….We want these nasty flame wars to
end and encourage all our members who may or may not have participated
in such negative posting to cease."
This sounds much like the deceptive official statement that
Chic Cicero, sponsor of Robert Zink, makes on his Hermetic Order of the
Golden Dawn, Inc. web site:
http://www.hermeticgoldendawn.org/trademark.htm
"We are opposed to the deliberate harassing of authors, groups,
fraternities, etc."
"We are opposed to… internet slander or abuse, or other manipulative
tactics."
Despite these misleading disavowals, the legal harassment by Chic
Cicero and the defamation campaign linked to Robert Zink continue until
today!
Having once been exposed and his credibility in jeopardy, Robert Zink
recently issued a second deceitful statement, swearing:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/golden-dawn-forum/message/17009
"I stand before each and every one of you and can say completely
and honestly that I have never posted a flame post, negative website
or used an anonymous -mailer. I call upon those who make
blind accusations against me or the order that I serve, to provide
hard, cold concrete evidence that I have participated in these
internet flame wars. Whatever I say, I say as myself (Frater PDR) or my
handle Zanoni49."
Here is some of this evidence:
On the one hand, Robert Zink declares:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/golden-dawn-forum/message/17009
"I don’t need to agree with everything Mr. Cicero or Mr.Griffin, Mr.
Webster or anyone else in order for me to call them
brother."
and swears:
"I have never posted a flame post, negative website or used an
anonymous -mailer."
On the other hand, Mr. Zink previously published the following
statements in his official capacity as the moderator of the Esoteric
Order of the Golden Dawn Yahoo forum:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/golden-dawn-forum/message/16581
"Griffen is a bully. He wants it all and will create enemies to unite
his factions."
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/golden-dawn-forum/message/16929
"Mr. Griffin is alledged to have once said "If I cannont own it all, I
will destroy it."
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/golden-dawn-forum/message/16929
"David Griffin and the Authentic Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn have
done nothing but tried to control, threaten and
deprive everyone else of their right to be themselves."
When an inflammatory web site recently appeared on the internet
defaming Chic Cicero, Mr. Zink, completely without evidence, attacked
Mr. Griffin as follows on the official EOGD forum:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/golden-dawn-forum/message/16815
"Next, we see a hate site re-appear on alt. Magick…directed at Chic
Cicero… But who would put up such as site…Well, it would need to be
someone threatened by Chic’s lawsuit against David Griffin. Why else?
They don’t want to see the
community come together, because if we do, as a GD community, then the
Griffen/Highlander theory would be null. (There can only be ONE)."
In a deceptive attempt to distance himself after having been linked the
defamation campaign, Mr. Zink recently recently wrote:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/golden-dawn-forum/message/16986
"I see no evidence to believe that Mr. Griffin is involved
with anything that is Nazi. This is pure propaganda and I reject it and
ask you to do the same."
Yet this is the same Robert Zink who disingenuously once wrote, again
as Chief of the EOGD:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/golden-dawn-forum/message/16857
"This association with Nazism imaginary or real on the part of
David Grifin may explain on a deeper level why he so much wants to
cotrol the Golden Dawn, and why it may have been necessary for Chic
Cicero who is the legal owner of the US trademark to file a lawsuit
against Mr. Griffin. Control was a big part of Hitlers mentality."
Robert Zink now admits that this latter statement was nothing more than
"pure propaganda." Obviously, Mr. Zink has lost most credibility by
making such wild and contradictory statements.
Mr. Zink also recently wrote:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/golden-dawn-forum/message/16986
"I do not accept that anyone including Mr. Griffin who is doing the
Great Work would even for a moment be part of any such Nazi
movement. This is pure propaganda and I reject it and ask you to do the
same.
Yet this is the same Robert Zink, who wrote just months ago in an
official capacity.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/golden-dawn-forum/message/16723
"Well, there has been a great deal of confusion about the connection if
any with the Golden Dawn and Nazism…. several people have aired
concern that the Golden dawn has a Nazi basis, it does not, or should I
say the Esoteric
Order of the Golden Dawn is anti-nazi."
Recently, Mr. Zink further wrote:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/golden-dawn-forum/message/16986
"In the last year or so there have been several websites
proclaiming that Mr. Griffin is a Nazi. I do not condone these
websites."
and:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/golden-dawn-forum/message/17009
I stand before each and every one of you and can say completely
and honestly that I have never posted a… negative website.
Yet this is the same Robert Zink proven to have, advertised, promote
and propagated just such a web site!
Robert Zink, in his capacity as Chief, wrote on the official Esoteric
Order of the Golden Dawn blog:
http://golden-dawn.blogspot.com/2005_02_12_golden-dawn_archive.html
"The Golden Dawn…Enemy of Nazism!
The Golden Dawn and Nazism are enemies both in nature and in practice,
and the very
…
read more »
blah blah blah blah blah blah blah….
Synopsis: Someone has posted as David Griffin, clearly not David
Griffin, and has very wittily ripped him to shreds.
In respose, David Griffin, or his pipsqueak (if he has one) has
immitated this by posting as Chic Cicero.
However, this immitation was a very sad one. It was neither witty, not
did it rip anyone to pieces.
You know, you’d really be better off going for the "look at me the poor
little lamb being attacked" angle, ’cause you’re attacks are either
ineffective, too long-winded to read, or both.
Oh and by the way, GDTruthSee, you’ve already posted this.
If I recall correctly, David Griffin himself came out and publicly
reprimanded you for discriminating against his tan-pants black-boots
red-arm-band fashion and political affiliation. One day, GDTruthSee,
you will learn to accept your leader for what he is, and what he
chooses to be. All paths lead to the same light, right?
"Blazin’ Tommy D." <td…@stny.rr.com> wrote in message
news:RI43f.41122$K91.27703@twister.nyroc.rr.com…
>I saw this post by Samuel23 and decided to make a new thread regarding it
> I don’t see any reason to confuse and confound will and perception unless
> you’re suggesting that magick is a delusion.
> It’s really very simple. There are things that we have to do as humans in
> order to survive. Once these things are accomplished everything else is
> spare time stuff.
> So indeed mundane acts are the result of person’s exercise and direction
> of
> will. Every action in life is likewise exercises and directions of will.
> This is irrefutable and really doesn’t have much to do with perception.
True, but we were talking about Will.
> In Magick practice one might do Tarot cards or work with Gematria in
> order
> to inspire some idea or direction in which to act. You then formulate your
> course of action in your mind — hence you create your act — and then
> bring
> it into physical manifestation.
> The whole action from creation to manifestation is an exercise and
> direction
> of your will.
True, but we were talking about Will.
A
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
Blazin’ Tommy D. wrote:
> I saw this post by Samuel23 and decided to make a new thread regarding it
> I don’t see any reason to confuse and confound will and perception unless
> you’re suggesting that magick is a delusion.
> It’s really very simple. There are things that we have to do as humans in
> order to survive. Once these things are accomplished everything else is
> spare time stuff.
> So indeed mundane acts are the result of person’s exercise and direction
> of will. Every action in life is likewise exercises and directions of
> will. This is irrefutable and really doesn’t have much to do with
> perception.
> In Magick practice one might do Tarot cards or work with Gematria in
> order to inspire some idea or direction in which to act. You then
> formulate your course of action in your mind — hence you create your act
> — and then bring it into physical manifestation.
> The whole action from creation to manifestation is an exercise and
> direction of your will.
Hey, BTD.
Ok, so here’s what I was thinking:
You are mostly correct. Mostly corect in that our mundane tasks require
Will. Shoot, even magical tasks require Will.
The direct outcome of our Will-based tasks is our perception of our
realities.
Will and perception almost go hand in hand. We can direct our Will to
achieve certain ends, either on the mundane or the magical. But what do we
do with these ends once we have achieved or attained them?
It is our perception of our Will-influenced events that allows us to
understand the choices we make and see where it leads us.
If we cannot perceive the events that transpire from humans utilizing
theirWill, what would be the point of it?
MWAH
LBG
—
Beware of the flying kangaroos. Do not torment them or feed them anything
but Fosters and chaotes. There are three donkeys and one kangaroo, best be
careful, witchypoo.
"LaBlueGirl" <Yeahyour…@com.com> wrote in message
news:dimf49$fgp$2@pita.alt.net…
> Ok, so here’s what I was thinking:
> You are mostly correct. Mostly corect in that our mundane tasks require
> Will. Shoot, even magical tasks require Will.
Are you differentiating between will and Will? If so, what is the
difference?
> Will and perception almost go hand in hand. We can direct our Will to
> achieve certain ends, either on the mundane or the magical.
When we "direct our Will" are we imposing our will upon our Will? Shouldn’t
it be the other way around?
"Tom" <askpermiss…@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:qsOdnVHPo7ucTtPeRVn-rA@comcast.com…
> "LaBlueGirl" <Yeahyour…@com.com> wrote in message
> news:dimf49$fgp$2@pita.alt.net…
>> Ok, so here’s what I was thinking:
>> You are mostly correct. Mostly corect in that our mundane tasks require
>> Will. Shoot, even magical tasks require Will.
> Are you differentiating between will and Will? If so, what is the
> difference?
>> Will and perception almost go hand in hand. We can direct our Will to
>> achieve certain ends, either on the mundane or the magical.
> When we "direct our Will" are we imposing our will upon our Will?
> Shouldn’t it be the other way around?
we can direct our will but not our Will. Our will does not direct ur Will,
but is willed instead by our Will. Hence it is our Will that does the
directing.
More or less.
A
"Archangel" <Archan…@nulldev.com> wrote in message
news:i8O3f.183325$XF5.62084@fe02.news.easynews.com…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> "Tom" <askpermiss…@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:qsOdnVHPo7ucTtPeRVn-rA@comcast.com…
>> "LaBlueGirl" <Yeahyour…@com.com> wrote in message
>> news:dimf49$fgp$2@pita.alt.net…
>>> Ok, so here’s what I was thinking:
>>> You are mostly correct. Mostly corect in that our mundane tasks require
>>> Will. Shoot, even magical tasks require Will.
>> Are you differentiating between will and Will? If so, what is the
>> difference?
>>> Will and perception almost go hand in hand. We can direct our Will to
>>> achieve certain ends, either on the mundane or the magical.
>> When we "direct our Will" are we imposing our will upon our Will?
>> Shouldn’t it be the other way around?
> we can direct our will but not our Will. Our will does not direct ur Will,
> but is willed instead by our Will. Hence it is our Will that does the
> directing.
> More or less.
That’s sort of how I see it, too. I think it’s not accurate to say we
"direct our Will". It’s like the tail wagging the dog.
The trick is to undertstand enough of what’s going on to be able to perceive
the flow of the Will and position oneself such that one flows with it. What
we want may have little or nothing to do with what we Will.
Will is in many ways analogous to Tao.
"Archangel" <Archan…@nulldev.com> wrote in message
news:i8O3f.183325$XF5.62084@fe02.news.easynews.com…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> "Tom" <askpermiss…@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:qsOdnVHPo7ucTtPeRVn-rA@comcast.com…
> > "LaBlueGirl" <Yeahyour…@com.com> wrote in message
> > news:dimf49$fgp$2@pita.alt.net…
> >> Ok, so here’s what I was thinking:
> >> You are mostly correct. Mostly corect in that our mundane tasks require
> >> Will. Shoot, even magical tasks require Will.
> > Are you differentiating between will and Will? If so, what is the
> > difference?
> >> Will and perception almost go hand in hand. We can direct our Will to
> >> achieve certain ends, either on the mundane or the magical.
> > When we "direct our Will" are we imposing our will upon our Will?
> > Shouldn’t it be the other way around?
> we can direct our will but not our Will. Our will does not direct ur Will,
> but is willed instead by our Will. Hence it is our Will that does the
> directing.
> More or less.
> A
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTD: Archangel, Honey, you are so full of shit, dear, that your posts are
incomprehensible:)
Go make poopies sweetheart and then come back … ‘kay?
Thanks Hon:)
"Tom" <askpermiss…@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:beKdneuexqfhWdLeRVn-jw@comcast.com…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> "Archangel" <Archan…@nulldev.com> wrote in message
> news:i8O3f.183325$XF5.62084@fe02.news.easynews.com…
> > "Tom" <askpermiss…@comcast.net> wrote in message
> > news:qsOdnVHPo7ucTtPeRVn-rA@comcast.com…
> >> "LaBlueGirl" <Yeahyour…@com.com> wrote in message
> >> news:dimf49$fgp$2@pita.alt.net…
> >>> Ok, so here’s what I was thinking:
> >>> You are mostly correct. Mostly corect in that our mundane tasks
require
> >>> Will. Shoot, even magical tasks require Will.
> >> Are you differentiating between will and Will? If so, what is the
> >> difference?
> >>> Will and perception almost go hand in hand. We can direct our Will to
> >>> achieve certain ends, either on the mundane or the magical.
> >> When we "direct our Will" are we imposing our will upon our Will?
> >> Shouldn’t it be the other way around?
> > we can direct our will but not our Will. Our will does not direct ur
Will,
> > but is willed instead by our Will. Hence it is our Will that does the
> > directing.
> > More or less.
> That’s sort of how I see it, too. I think it’s not accurate to say we
> "direct our Will". It’s like the tail wagging the dog.
> The trick is to undertstand enough of what’s going on to be able to
perceive
> the flow of the Will and position oneself such that one flows with it.
What
> we want may have little or nothing to do with what we Will.
> Will is in many ways analogous to Tao.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTD: Well it’s like this. Either you believe in Free Will or you’re a
Calvinist. Now arguably all of this pseudo-religious Enochian bosh and
Goetia with these detailed sigil lie things depicting some simple minded
sort of unfolding of reality is Calvinist and might even have been invented
like Christianity to support divine monrachy with the former similarly to
Calvinism like saying that G_d is or must be a Republican.
But you create a thing in your mind and exercise YOUR will to bring it into
manifestation if that’s what you want to do. Nothing or no one can compel
you to. Your creation may stay in your mind or you can forget about it
altogether. However, you might create a carved image in your head and will
it into manifestation – i.e., you will yourself to pick up a knife, pick up
a piece of wood and then you carve the thing. In doing so you direct your
will through your tool unto that piece of wood and thus render it into a
new creation that did not previously exist.
No one else did it but you
Now in terms of Magic/k there’s no difference except that your tools are
slightly different and the material might be different but essentially
you’re doing the same thing.
"Blazin’ Tommy D." <td…@stny.rr.com> wrote in message
news:Lxg4f.48276$Xl2.8089@twister.nyroc.rr.com…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> "Archangel" <Archan…@nulldev.com> wrote in message
> news:i8O3f.183325$XF5.62084@fe02.news.easynews.com…
>> "Tom" <askpermiss…@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:qsOdnVHPo7ucTtPeRVn-rA@comcast.com…
>> > "LaBlueGirl" <Yeahyour…@com.com> wrote in message
>> > news:dimf49$fgp$2@pita.alt.net…
>> >> Ok, so here’s what I was thinking:
>> >> You are mostly correct. Mostly corect in that our mundane tasks
>> >> require
>> >> Will. Shoot, even magical tasks require Will.
>> > Are you differentiating between will and Will? If so, what is the
>> > difference?
>> >> Will and perception almost go hand in hand. We can direct our Will to
>> >> achieve certain ends, either on the mundane or the magical.
>> > When we "direct our Will" are we imposing our will upon our Will?
>> > Shouldn’t it be the other way around?
>> we can direct our will but not our Will. Our will does not direct ur
>> Will,
>> but is willed instead by our Will. Hence it is our Will that does the
>> directing.
>> More or less.
>> A
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> BTD: Archangel, Honey, you are so full of shit, dear, that your posts are
> incomprehensible:)
> Go make poopies sweetheart and then come back … ‘kay?
> Thanks Hon:)
Yes dear, I accept you neither understand the facts presented nor appreciate
the humour in the words. Never mind, we all have to work with what we have.
In the
meantime, may I suggest you experiment with a killfile so that you dont have
to bother with responding and I dont have to suffer the tedium of reading
your illiterate responses?
Have a nice day.
A
"Blazin’ Tommy D." <td…@stny.rr.com> wrote in message
news:fIg4f.48396$Xl2.45195@twister.nyroc.rr.com…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> "Tom" <askpermiss…@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:beKdneuexqfhWdLeRVn-jw@comcast.com…
>> "Archangel" <Archan…@nulldev.com> wrote in message
>> news:i8O3f.183325$XF5.62084@fe02.news.easynews.com…
>> > "Tom" <askpermiss…@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> > news:qsOdnVHPo7ucTtPeRVn-rA@comcast.com…
>> >> "LaBlueGirl" <Yeahyour…@com.com> wrote in message
>> >> news:dimf49$fgp$2@pita.alt.net…
>> >>> Ok, so here’s what I was thinking:
>> >>> You are mostly correct. Mostly corect in that our mundane tasks
> require
>> >>> Will. Shoot, even magical tasks require Will.
>> >> Are you differentiating between will and Will? If so, what is the
>> >> difference?
>> >>> Will and perception almost go hand in hand. We can direct our Will to
>> >>> achieve certain ends, either on the mundane or the magical.
>> >> When we "direct our Will" are we imposing our will upon our Will?
>> >> Shouldn’t it be the other way around?
>> > we can direct our will but not our Will. Our will does not direct ur
> Will,
>> > but is willed instead by our Will. Hence it is our Will that does the
>> > directing.
>> > More or less.
>> That’s sort of how I see it, too. I think it’s not accurate to say we
>> "direct our Will". It’s like the tail wagging the dog.
>> The trick is to undertstand enough of what’s going on to be able to
> perceive
>> the flow of the Will and position oneself such that one flows with it.
> What
>> we want may have little or nothing to do with what we Will.
>> Will is in many ways analogous to Tao.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> BTD: Well it’s like this. Either you believe in Free Will or you’re a
> Calvinist. Now arguably all of this pseudo-religious Enochian bosh and
> Goetia with these detailed sigil lie things depicting some simple minded
> sort of unfolding of reality is Calvinist and might even have been
> invented
> like Christianity to support divine monrachy with the former similarly to
> Calvinism like saying that G_d is or must be a Republican.
> But you create a thing in your mind and exercise YOUR will to bring it
> into
> manifestation if that’s what you want to do. Nothing or no one can compel
> you to. Your creation may stay in your mind or you can forget about it
> altogether. However, you might create a carved image in your head and will
> it into manifestation – i.e., you will yourself to pick up a knife, pick
> up
> a piece of wood and then you carve the thing. In doing so you direct your
> will through your tool unto that piece of wood and thus render it into a
> new creation that did not previously exist.
> No one else did it but you
> Now in terms of Magic/k there’s no difference except that your tools are
> slightly different and the material might be different but essentially
> you’re doing the same thing.
This shows very clearly that you dont understand a thing about will, Will or
mind. Back to your books I fear. Come back when you understand more.
A
On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 23:46:51 GMT, "Blazin’ Tommy D."
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
<td…@stny.rr.com> wrote:
>"Archangel" <Archan…@nulldev.com> wrote in message
>news:i8O3f.183325$XF5.62084@fe02.news.easynews.com…
>> "Tom" <askpermiss…@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:qsOdnVHPo7ucTtPeRVn-rA@comcast.com…
>> > "LaBlueGirl" <Yeahyour…@com.com> wrote in message
>> > news:dimf49$fgp$2@pita.alt.net…
>> >> Ok, so here’s what I was thinking:
>> >> You are mostly correct. Mostly corect in that our mundane tasks require
>> >> Will. Shoot, even magical tasks require Will.
>> > Are you differentiating between will and Will? If so, what is the
>> > difference?
>> >> Will and perception almost go hand in hand. We can direct our Will to
>> >> achieve certain ends, either on the mundane or the magical.
>> > When we "direct our Will" are we imposing our will upon our Will?
No
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
>> > Shouldn’t it be the other way around?
>> we can direct our will but not our Will. Our will does not direct ur Will,
>> but is willed instead by our Will. Hence it is our Will that does the
>> directing.
>> More or less.
>> A
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>BTD: Archangel, Honey, you are so full of shit, dear, that your posts are
>incomprehensible:)
>Go make poopies sweetheart and then come back … ‘kay?
>Thanks Hon:)
"Melkor" <morg…@middleearth.com> wrote in message
news:sapgl116hv1tnq41kubtka1uj114ftmflb@4ax.com…
>>> >> Will and perception almost go hand in hand. We can direct our Will to
>>> >> achieve certain ends, either on the mundane or the magical.
>>> > When we "direct our Will" are we imposing our will upon our Will?
> No
Indeed not. When we direct our Will we deceive ourselves. Our Will is the
highest manifestation of purpose and therefore cannot be directed at all.
A