neuroscience is so young i dont know how accurate leary’s model of the
8 circuits could be… might have jumped the gun.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
paraneuropsychology…
psychological, spiritual, neurological, and psychic.
i think these will all come together.
neurology + psychology will deepen the integration as neuroscience
evolves… and spirituality will continue edging its way in…while
energy studies in science and parapsychology also gain weight.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
though this is the focus…the "parasociocultural" context has to be
remembered… the organism is part of social and environmental
contexts… the energy system is part of psychic networks… the mind
is shaped by cultural mindsets… and they all interact with each other
too.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(post)rational world fleshed-out.
technology and scientific knowledge will continue to develop, and
parapsychospirituality will find its place in this context.
new terminology, maps, knowledge, neural correlations, brain
manipulation/reading, neuro-tech, techniques, spiritual integration,
psychic integration, further evolution revelation and settling in.
the rational enlightenment is really only beginning.
what is now here and there, confusing, or only suggested will soon be
common, clear, and created.
unless there are huge set-backs rationality and postrationality should
continue to CUT through.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
a rational/postrational fleshed out society, as we have begun to be,
will if healthy be ruled by rational/postrational centred
individuals… in mind and heart. there will still be prerationals…
i think the higher levels will effect nearly all minds, and make the
path very easy, but many will still be CENTRED in prerational… and in
a healthy (post)rational world with a strong awareness of evolution,
particularily in human history and human psychological growth, this
will be totally expected and accepted with the humility that we’ve all
been there…but upward movement will still be encouraged as the
natural flow… even beyond mental.
reason still appears very primitive and selfcentred.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
there’s not much point in my body getting out if im not watching… and
not much point in watching if my body’s not going out, either.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
my mind is like the moon, where im building a space-station as a
launching bad to the further planets. i need to come back to earth more
often, stay in touch with the foundation.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
external-input/output to/from consciousness interests me. reflective
consciousness and intentional output. realworld, oobe’s, esp, higher
dimensions, intuition, etc. all the ways i interact with reality
outside myself.
the interaction of t-fields and the brain creating thought interests
me… and the interaction with other peoples t-fields causing
telepathic consciousness.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
energy-feeling.
emotion/feeling is magick..? a link between within and without?
intentional actuion seems intimately related to feeling awareness.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
trippy is reality being shown to be illusion, an interior spectacle.
it’s an experience that defies realities norms.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
POV-shift, please.
being-in-the-world vs world-being-in-me.
bodyland vs dreamland. (atoms vs images)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"we’re just protons, neutrons, electrons…" -catempire.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
all input/output is via energy?
i am energy-feeling? independent of the body?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
im looking for intellectual enlightenment, spiritual enlightenment, and
healthy functioning "enlightenment"…!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"the look of a feeling"……
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
knowledge – logic – illumination
science/psychology – philosophy – spirituality
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
wilber talks of the same 3 types of science disclosed by the 3 eyes
(the eye of flesh, mind, and spirit).
but he arranged it as body-> spirit. and i was confused because for
the eye of mind he ONLY put logical certainty…not mental
awareness/introspection…which would be psychology…and in the realm
of verifiable truth, not pure logic.
has to be a place for external truth, internal truth, logical
precision, and mystical illumination.
verifiable facts, self-evident logic, primordial wisdom.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
T -> UT -> O
manhood -> HGA -> Nothing/Nuit
"so at last get OUT"
OUT is integrating all dimensions, because you cannot come back the
same way (O -> UT -> T)?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
anyway, if thats right then i think magick in the higest sense is the
way OUT. but can also dawdle around, or can focus on
going-for-god(head). but nondual, like the tantric buddhists after
theyve attained "enlightenment".
i will stick to the mystical way as my core path but may take up
magick, especially after a degree of attainment.
there are premystical magicians…there are thos eon the way to
godhead, sometimes primarily…and then the nondual post-enlightened
magician.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
m-urana wrote:
> neuroscience is so young i dont know how accurate leary’s model of the
> 8 circuits could be… might have jumped the gun.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> paraneuropsychology…
> psychological, spiritual, neurological, and psychic.
> i think these will all come together.
> neurology + psychology will deepen the integration as neuroscience
> evolves… and spirituality will continue edging its way in…while
> energy studies in science and parapsychology also gain weight.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> though this is the focus…the "parasociocultural" context has to be
> remembered… the organism is part of social and environmental
> contexts… the energy system is part of psychic networks… the mind
> is shaped by cultural mindsets… and they all interact with each other
> too.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> (post)rational world fleshed-out.
> technology and scientific knowledge will continue to develop, and
> parapsychospirituality will find its place in this context.
I don’t think so. Do you ever have an emotional reaction to music?
> new terminology, maps, knowledge, neural correlations, brain
> manipulation/reading, neuro-tech, techniques, spiritual integration,
> psychic integration, further evolution revelation and settling in.
> the rational enlightenment is really only beginning.
Perhaps it’s just a stop along the way.
> what is now here and there, confusing, or only suggested will soon be
> common, clear, and created.
Like why people don’t like wide ties anymore? Or are they back now?
> unless there are huge set-backs rationality and postrationality should
> continue to CUT through.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> a rational/postrational fleshed out society, as we have begun to be,
> will if healthy be ruled by rational/postrational centred
> individuals… in mind and heart. there will still be prerationals…
> i think the higher levels will effect nearly all minds, and make the
> path very easy, but many will still be CENTRED in prerational… and in
Prerational?
http:\\www.becominghuman.org
Take a look at the documentary, esp. the section on neandertals.
They were rational beings. Entirely what you probably think of
as ‘cave men’. Interesting exercise to think about that, too.
> a healthy (post)rational world with a strong awareness of evolution,
Ha! There is no awareness of evoltion. Evolution is a process that
occurs on a geological timescale, not perceivable by humans.
It is, at the end of the day, something that can only be believed
in.
> particularily in human history and human psychological growth, this
I hate to say this, I personally think the book is excrement, but
perhaps you might like to read ‘The Story of B’.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> will be totally expected and accepted with the humility that we’ve all
> been there…but upward movement will still be encouraged as the
> natural flow… even beyond mental.
> reason still appears very primitive and selfcentred.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> there’s not much point in my body getting out if im not watching… and
> not much point in watching if my body’s not going out, either.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> my mind is like the moon, where im building a space-station as a
> launching bad to the further planets. i need to come back to earth more
> often, stay in touch with the foundation.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> external-input/output to/from consciousness interests me. reflective
> consciousness and intentional output. realworld, oobe’s, esp, higher
> dimensions, intuition, etc. all the ways i interact with reality
> outside myself.
> the interaction of t-fields and the brain creating thought interests
> me… and the interaction with other peoples t-fields causing
> telepathic consciousness.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> energy-feeling.
> emotion/feeling is magick..? a link between within and without?
> intentional actuion seems intimately related to feeling awareness.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> trippy is reality being shown to be illusion, an interior spectacle.
> it’s an experience that defies realities norms.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> POV-shift, please.
> being-in-the-world vs world-being-in-me.
> bodyland vs dreamland. (atoms vs images)
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> "we’re just protons, neutrons, electrons…" -catempire.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> all input/output is via energy?
> i am energy-feeling? independent of the body?
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> im looking for intellectual enlightenment, spiritual enlightenment, and
> healthy functioning "enlightenment"…!
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> "the look of a feeling"……
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> knowledge – logic – illumination
> science/psychology – philosophy – spirituality
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> wilber talks of the same 3 types of science disclosed by the 3 eyes
> (the eye of flesh, mind, and spirit).
> but he arranged it as body-> spirit. and i was confused because for
> the eye of mind he ONLY put logical certainty…not mental
> awareness/introspection…which would be psychology…and in the realm
> of verifiable truth, not pure logic.
> has to be a place for external truth, internal truth, logical
> precision, and mystical illumination.
> verifiable facts, self-evident logic, primordial wisdom.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> T -> UT -> O
> manhood -> HGA -> Nothing/Nuit
> "so at last get OUT"
> OUT is integrating all dimensions, because you cannot come back the
> same way (O -> UT -> T)?
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Is that a joke? Name some ‘place’ you *can* ‘come back from’.
It’s like the old saying, ‘lighting never strikes the same
place twice, because no place is the same after it’s been
hit by lightning.’
> anyway, if thats right then i think magick in the higest sense is the
> way OUT. but can also dawdle around, or can focus on
Not really. It’s *a* way. Not the only way. Which way you
choose is of course, entirely up to you.
> going-for-god(head). but nondual, like the tantric buddhists after
> theyve attained "enlightenment".
> i will stick to the mystical way as my core path but may take up
> magick, especially after a degree of attainment.
Good luck.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> there are premystical magicians…there are thos eon the way to
> godhead, sometimes primarily…and then the nondual post-enlightened
> magician.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
martin swain wrote:
> m-urana wrote:
> > neuroscience is so young i dont know how accurate leary’s model of the
> > 8 circuits could be… might have jumped the gun.
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > paraneuropsychology…
> > psychological, spiritual, neurological, and psychic.
> > i think these will all come together.
> > neurology + psychology will deepen the integration as neuroscience
> > evolves… and spirituality will continue edging its way in…while
> > energy studies in science and parapsychology also gain weight.
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > though this is the focus…the "parasociocultural" context has to be
> > remembered… the organism is part of social and environmental
> > contexts… the energy system is part of psychic networks… the mind
> > is shaped by cultural mindsets… and they all interact with each other
> > too.
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > (post)rational world fleshed-out.
> > technology and scientific knowledge will continue to develop, and
> > parapsychospirituality will find its place in this context.
> I don’t think so. Do you ever have an emotional reaction to music?
yea trippy hey?
anyways, why u ask?
> > new terminology, maps, knowledge, neural correlations, brain
> > manipulation/reading, neuro-tech, techniques, spiritual integration,
> > psychic integration, further evolution revelation and settling in.
> > the rational enlightenment is really only beginning.
> Perhaps it’s just a stop along the way.
yeah
> > what is now here and there, confusing, or only suggested will soon be
> > common, clear, and created.
> Like why people don’t like wide ties anymore? Or are they back now?
no the kinda stuff that excites the world.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> > unless there are huge set-backs rationality and postrationality should
> > continue to CUT through.
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > a rational/postrational fleshed out society, as we have begun to be,
> > will if healthy be ruled by rational/postrational centred
> > individuals… in mind and heart. there will still be prerationals…
> > i think the higher levels will effect nearly all minds, and make the
> > path very easy, but many will still be CENTRED in prerational… and in
> Prerational?
> http:\\www.becominghuman.org
> Take a look at the documentary, esp. the section on neandertals.
> They were rational beings. Entirely what you probably think of
> as ‘cave men’. Interesting exercise to think about that, too.
well i know there is another meaning to rational but its not what i
mean.
> > a healthy (post)rational world with a strong awareness of evolution,
> Ha! There is no awareness of evoltion. Evolution is a process that
> occurs on a geological timescale, not perceivable by humans.
right…but that doesnt exclude it from knowledge awareness.
anyway you can be aware of levels if not evolution as a structure
rather than a process, but both pov’s are being manifested.
> It is, at the end of the day, something that can only be believed
> in.
like nearly anything..
> > particularily in human history and human psychological growth, this
> I hate to say this, I personally think the book is excrement, but
> perhaps you might like to read ‘The Story of B’.
k…whyd that pop up?
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> > will be totally expected and accepted with the humility that we’ve all
> > been there…but upward movement will still be encouraged as the
> > natural flow… even beyond mental.
> > reason still appears very primitive and selfcentred.
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > there’s not much point in my body getting out if im not watching… and
> > not much point in watching if my body’s not going out, either.
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > my mind is like the moon, where im building a space-station as a
> > launching bad to the further planets. i need to come back to earth more
> > often, stay in touch with the foundation.
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > external-input/output to/from consciousness interests me. reflective
> > consciousness and intentional output. realworld, oobe’s, esp, higher
> > dimensions, intuition, etc. all the ways i interact with reality
> > outside myself.
> > the interaction of t-fields and the brain creating thought interests
> > me… and the interaction with other peoples t-fields causing
> > telepathic consciousness.
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > energy-feeling.
> > emotion/feeling is magick..? a link between within and without?
> > intentional actuion seems intimately related to feeling awareness.
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > trippy is reality being shown to be illusion, an interior spectacle.
> > it’s an experience that defies realities norms.
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > POV-shift, please.
> > being-in-the-world vs world-being-in-me.
> > bodyland vs dreamland. (atoms vs images)
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > "we’re just protons, neutrons, electrons…" -catempire.
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > all input/output is via energy?
> > i am energy-feeling? independent of the body?
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > im looking for intellectual enlightenment, spiritual enlightenment, and
> > healthy functioning "enlightenment"…!
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > "the look of a feeling"……
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > knowledge – logic – illumination
> > science/psychology – philosophy – spirituality
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > wilber talks of the same 3 types of science disclosed by the 3 eyes
> > (the eye of flesh, mind, and spirit).
> > but he arranged it as body-> spirit. and i was confused because for
> > the eye of mind he ONLY put logical certainty…not mental
> > awareness/introspection…which would be psychology…and in the realm
> > of verifiable truth, not pure logic.
> > has to be a place for external truth, internal truth, logical
> > precision, and mystical illumination.
> > verifiable facts, self-evident logic, primordial wisdom.
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > T -> UT -> O
> > manhood -> HGA -> Nothing/Nuit
> > "so at last get OUT"
> > OUT is integrating all dimensions, because you cannot come back the
> > same way (O -> UT -> T)?
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Is that a joke? Name some ‘place’ you *can* ‘come back from’.
> It’s like the old saying, ‘lighting never strikes the same
> place twice, because no place is the same after it’s been
> hit by lightning.’
yeah, but yknow what i mean :p lol
> > anyway, if thats right then i think magick in the higest sense is the
> > way OUT. but can also dawdle around, or can focus on
> Not really. It’s *a* way. Not the only way. Which way you
> choose is of course, entirely up to you.
> > going-for-god(head). but nondual, like the tantric buddhists after
> > theyve attained "enlightenment".
> > i will stick to the mystical way as my core path but may take up
> > magick, especially after a degree of attainment.
> Good luck.
thanks
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> > there are premystical magicians…there are thos eon the way to
> > godhead, sometimes primarily…and then the nondual post-enlightened
> > magician.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
m-urana wrote:
> martin swain wrote:
>>m-urana wrote:
>>>neuroscience is so young i dont know how accurate leary’s model of the
>>>8 circuits could be… might have jumped the gun.
>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>paraneuropsychology…
>>>psychological, spiritual, neurological, and psychic.
>>>i think these will all come together.
>>>neurology + psychology will deepen the integration as neuroscience
>>>evolves… and spirituality will continue edging its way in…while
>>>energy studies in science and parapsychology also gain weight.
>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>though this is the focus…the "parasociocultural" context has to be
>>>remembered… the organism is part of social and environmental
>>>contexts… the energy system is part of psychic networks… the mind
>>>is shaped by cultural mindsets… and they all interact with each other
>>>too.
>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>(post)rational world fleshed-out.
>>>technology and scientific knowledge will continue to develop, and
>>>parapsychospirituality will find its place in this context.
>>I don’t think so. Do you ever have an emotional reaction to music?
> yea trippy hey?
anyways, why u ask?
Do you think it will ever be possible to explain such
within the domain of science? I don’t. Science is one
thing people do, music is another. Is there any reason
to think one side of one’s brain will dominate the other?
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
>>>new terminology, maps, knowledge, neural correlations, brain
>>>manipulation/reading, neuro-tech, techniques, spiritual integration,
>>>psychic integration, further evolution revelation and settling in.
>>>the rational enlightenment is really only beginning.
>>Perhaps it’s just a stop along the way.
> yeah
>>>what is now here and there, confusing, or only suggested will soon be
>>>common, clear, and created.
>>Like why people don’t like wide ties anymore? Or are they back now?
> no the kinda stuff that excites the world.
Depends on one’s world I suppose. Tell that for intance,
to Calvin Klein.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
>>>unless there are huge set-backs rationality and postrationality should
>>>continue to CUT through.
>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>a rational/postrational fleshed out society, as we have begun to be,
>>>will if healthy be ruled by rational/postrational centred
>>>individuals… in mind and heart. there will still be prerationals…
>>>i think the higher levels will effect nearly all minds, and make the
>>>path very easy, but many will still be CENTRED in prerational… and in
>>Prerational?
>>http:\\www.becominghuman.org
>>Take a look at the documentary, esp. the section on neandertals.
>>They were rational beings. Entirely what you probably think of
>>as ‘cave men’. Interesting exercise to think about that, too.
> well i know there is another meaning to rational but its not what i
> mean.
I know that. I still meant what I wrote.
>>>a healthy (post)rational world with a strong awareness of evolution,
>>Ha! There is no awareness of evoltion. Evolution is a process that
>>occurs on a geological timescale, not perceivable by humans.
> right…but that doesnt exclude it from knowledge awareness.
You are talking about culture. Culture itself is not ‘aware’
of anything, only the individuals in it are.
> anyway you can be aware of levels if not evolution as a structure
> rather than a process, but both pov’s are being manifested.
One can be familiar with the *idea* of evolution, and either
believe it or not.
>>It is, at the end of the day, something that can only be believed
>>in.
> like nearly anything..
No, there are many things that can be experienced first hand.
>>>particularily in human history and human psychological growth, this
>>I hate to say this, I personally think the book is excrement, but
>>perhaps you might like to read ‘The Story of B’.
> k…whyd that pop up?
Because you are talking about human culture, specifically the
developement thereof in a historical context, which is the
subject of that book. If you read it you will understand.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
>>>will be totally expected and accepted with the humility that we’ve all
>>>been there…but upward movement will still be encouraged as the
>>>natural flow… even beyond mental.
>>>reason still appears very primitive and selfcentred.
>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>there’s not much point in my body getting out if im not watching… and
>>>not much point in watching if my body’s not going out, either.
>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>my mind is like the moon, where im building a space-station as a
>>>launching bad to the further planets. i need to come back to earth more
>>>often, stay in touch with the foundation.
>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>external-input/output to/from consciousness interests me. reflective
>>>consciousness and intentional output. realworld, oobe’s, esp, higher
>>>dimensions, intuition, etc. all the ways i interact with reality
>>>outside myself.
>>>the interaction of t-fields and the brain creating thought interests
>>>me… and the interaction with other peoples t-fields causing
>>>telepathic consciousness.
>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>energy-feeling.
>>>emotion/feeling is magick..? a link between within and without?
>>>intentional actuion seems intimately related to feeling awareness.
>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>trippy is reality being shown to be illusion, an interior spectacle.
>>>it’s an experience that defies realities norms.
>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>POV-shift, please.
>>>being-in-the-world vs world-being-in-me.
>>>bodyland vs dreamland. (atoms vs images)
>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>"we’re just protons, neutrons, electrons…" -catempire.
>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>all input/output is via energy?
>>>i am energy-feeling? independent of the body?
>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>im looking for intellectual enlightenment, spiritual enlightenment, and
>>>healthy functioning "enlightenment"…!
>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>"the look of a feeling"……
>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>knowledge – logic – illumination
>>>science/psychology – philosophy – spirituality
>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>wilber talks of the same 3 types of science disclosed by the 3 eyes
>>>(the eye of flesh, mind, and spirit).
>>>but he arranged it as body-> spirit. and i was confused because for
>>>the eye of mind he ONLY put logical certainty…not mental
>>>awareness/introspection…which would be psychology…and in the realm
>>>of verifiable truth, not pure logic.
>>>has to be a place for external truth, internal truth, logical
>>>precision, and mystical illumination.
>>>verifiable facts, self-evident logic, primordial wisdom.
>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>T -> UT -> O
>>>manhood -> HGA -> Nothing/Nuit
>>>"so at last get OUT"
>>>OUT is integrating all dimensions, because you cannot come back the
>>>same way (O -> UT -> T)?
>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>Is that a joke? Name some ‘place’ you *can* ‘come back from’.
>>It’s like the old saying, ‘lighting never strikes the same
>>place twice, because no place is the same after it’s been
>>hit by lightning.’
> yeah, but yknow what i mean :p lol
I know what you meant, I think. I still meant what I wrote.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
>>>anyway, if thats right then i think magick in the higest sense is the
>>>way OUT. but can also dawdle around, or can focus on
>>Not really. It’s *a* way. Not the only way. Which way you
>>choose is of course, entirely up to you.
>>>going-for-god(head). but nondual, like the tantric buddhists after
>>>theyve attained "enlightenment".
>>>i will stick to the mystical way as my core path but may take up
>>>magick, especially after a degree of attainment.
>>Good luck.
> thanks
>>>there are premystical magicians…there are thos eon the way to
>>>godhead, sometimes primarily…and then the nondual post-enlightened
>>>magician.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
Martin Swain wrote:
> m-urana wrote:
> > martin swain wrote:
> >>m-urana wrote:
> >>>neuroscience is so young i dont know how accurate leary’s model of the
> >>>8 circuits could be… might have jumped the gun.
> >>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>>paraneuropsychology…
> >>>psychological, spiritual, neurological, and psychic.
> >>>i think these will all come together.
> >>>neurology + psychology will deepen the integration as neuroscience
> >>>evolves… and spirituality will continue edging its way in…while
> >>>energy studies in science and parapsychology also gain weight.
> >>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>>though this is the focus…the "parasociocultural" context has to be
> >>>remembered… the organism is part of social and environmental
> >>>contexts… the energy system is part of psychic networks… the mind
> >>>is shaped by cultural mindsets… and they all interact with each other
> >>>too.
> >>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>>(post)rational world fleshed-out.
> >>>technology and scientific knowledge will continue to develop, and
> >>>parapsychospirituality will find its place in this context.
> >>I don’t think so. Do you ever have an emotional reaction to music?
> > yea trippy hey?
anyways, why u ask?
> Do you think it will ever be possible to explain such
> within the domain of science? I don’t. Science is one
> thing people do, music is another. Is there any reason
> to think one side of one’s brain will dominate the other?
ah, no i dont think science will cover that. it may think about it but
it wont replace it.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> >>>new terminology, maps, knowledge, neural correlations, brain
> >>>manipulation/reading, neuro-tech, techniques, spiritual integration,
> >>>psychic integration, further evolution revelation and settling in.
> >>>the rational enlightenment is really only beginning.
> >>Perhaps it’s just a stop along the way.
> > yeah
> >>>what is now here and there, confusing, or only suggested will soon be
> >>>common, clear, and created.
> >>Like why people don’t like wide ties anymore? Or are they back now?
> > no the kinda stuff that excites the world.
> Depends on one’s world I suppose. Tell that for intance,
> to Calvin Klein.
> >>>unless there are huge set-backs rationality and postrationality should
> >>>continue to CUT through.
> >>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>>a rational/postrational fleshed out society, as we have begun to be,
> >>>will if healthy be ruled by rational/postrational centred
> >>>individuals… in mind and heart. there will still be prerationals…
> >>>i think the higher levels will effect nearly all minds, and make the
> >>>path very easy, but many will still be CENTRED in prerational… and in
> >>Prerational?
> >>http:\\www.becominghuman.org
> >>Take a look at the documentary, esp. the section on neandertals.
> >>They were rational beings. Entirely what you probably think of
> >>as ‘cave men’. Interesting exercise to think about that, too.
> > well i know there is another meaning to rational but its not what i
> > mean.
> I know that. I still meant what I wrote.
> >>>a healthy (post)rational world with a strong awareness of evolution,
> >>Ha! There is no awareness of evoltion. Evolution is a process that
> >>occurs on a geological timescale, not perceivable by humans.
> > right…but that doesnt exclude it from knowledge awareness.
> You are talking about culture. Culture itself is not ‘aware’
> of anything, only the individuals in it are.
yeah, but it gets to that point in collective awareness where you can
generalize, or atleast point out mini-cultural worldviews within larger
cultures. i think cultures will always have many levels and types, im
thinking of the centre-of-gravity…and especially the
centre-of-gravity of power.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> > anyway you can be aware of levels if not evolution as a structure
> > rather than a process, but both pov’s are being manifested.
> One can be familiar with the *idea* of evolution, and either
> believe it or not.
> >>It is, at the end of the day, something that can only be believed
> >>in.
> > like nearly anything..
> No, there are many things that can be experienced first hand.
other than direct internal experience which assumes no objective
reality its all belief, getting beyond ourself. even if i am
experiencing being at a concert or on a bus at this very moment any
suggestion beyond the experienced appearance is still a belief.
> >>>particularily in human history and human psychological growth, this
> >>I hate to say this, I personally think the book is excrement, but
> >>perhaps you might like to read ‘The Story of B’.
> > k…whyd that pop up?
> Because you are talking about human culture, specifically the
> developement thereof in a historical context, which is the
> subject of that book. If you read it you will understand.
heard about the fossils of supposed other species of humanlike beings
discovered in indonesia.. the "hobbits"..?
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> >>>will be totally expected and accepted with the humility that we’ve all
> >>>been there…but upward movement will still be encouraged as the
> >>>natural flow… even beyond mental.
> >>>reason still appears very primitive and selfcentred.
> >>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>>there’s not much point in my body getting out if im not watching… and
> >>>not much point in watching if my body’s not going out, either.
> >>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>>my mind is like the moon, where im building a space-station as a
> >>>launching bad to the further planets. i need to come back to earth more
> >>>often, stay in touch with the foundation.
> >>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>>external-input/output to/from consciousness interests me. reflective
> >>>consciousness and intentional output. realworld, oobe’s, esp, higher
> >>>dimensions, intuition, etc. all the ways i interact with reality
> >>>outside myself.
> >>>the interaction of t-fields and the brain creating thought interests
> >>>me… and the interaction with other peoples t-fields causing
> >>>telepathic consciousness.
> >>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>>energy-feeling.
> >>>emotion/feeling is magick..? a link between within and without?
> >>>intentional actuion seems intimately related to feeling awareness.
> >>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>>trippy is reality being shown to be illusion, an interior spectacle.
> >>>it’s an experience that defies realities norms.
> >>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>>POV-shift, please.
> >>>being-in-the-world vs world-being-in-me.
> >>>bodyland vs dreamland. (atoms vs images)
> >>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>>"we’re just protons, neutrons, electrons…" -catempire.
> >>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>>all input/output is via energy?
> >>>i am energy-feeling? independent of the body?
> >>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>>im looking for intellectual enlightenment, spiritual enlightenment, and
> >>>healthy functioning "enlightenment"…!
> >>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>>"the look of a feeling"……
> >>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>>knowledge – logic – illumination
> >>>science/psychology – philosophy – spirituality
> >>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>>wilber talks of the same 3 types of science disclosed by the 3 eyes
> >>>(the eye of flesh, mind, and spirit).
> >>>but he arranged it as body-> spirit. and i was confused because for
> >>>the eye of mind he ONLY put logical certainty…not mental
> >>>awareness/introspection…which would be psychology…and in the realm
> >>>of verifiable truth, not pure logic.
> >>>has to be a place for external truth, internal truth, logical
> >>>precision, and mystical illumination.
> >>>verifiable facts, self-evident logic, primordial wisdom.
> >>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>>T -> UT -> O
> >>>manhood -> HGA -> Nothing/Nuit
> >>>"so at last get OUT"
> >>>OUT is integrating all dimensions, because you cannot come back the
> >>>same way (O -> UT -> T)?
> >>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>Is that a joke? Name some ‘place’ you *can* ‘come back from’.
> >>It’s like the old saying, ‘lighting never strikes the same
> >>place twice, because no place is the same after it’s been
> >>hit by lightning.’
> > yeah, but yknow what i mean :p lol
> I know what you meant, I think. I still meant what I wrote.
> >>>anyway, if thats right then i think magick in the higest sense is the
> >>>way OUT. but can also dawdle around, or can focus on
> >>Not really. It’s *a* way. Not the only way. Which way you
> >>choose is of course, entirely up to you.
> >>>going-for-god(head). but nondual, like the tantric buddhists after
> >>>theyve attained "enlightenment".
> >>>i will stick to the mystical way as my core path but may take up
> >>>magick, especially after a degree of attainment.
> >>Good luck.
> > thanks
> >>>there are premystical magicians…there are thos eon the way to
> >>>godhead, sometimes primarily…and then the nondual post-enlightened
> >>>magician.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
m-urana wrote:
> Martin Swain wrote:
>>m-urana wrote:
>>>martin swain wrote:
>>>>m-urana wrote:
>>>>>neuroscience is so young i dont know how accurate leary’s model of the
>>>>>8 circuits could be… might have jumped the gun.
>>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>paraneuropsychology…
>>>>>psychological, spiritual, neurological, and psychic.
>>>>>i think these will all come together.
>>>>>neurology + psychology will deepen the integration as neuroscience
>>>>>evolves… and spirituality will continue edging its way in…while
>>>>>energy studies in science and parapsychology also gain weight.
>>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>though this is the focus…the "parasociocultural" context has to be
>>>>>remembered… the organism is part of social and environmental
>>>>>contexts… the energy system is part of psychic networks… the mind
>>>>>is shaped by cultural mindsets… and they all interact with each other
>>>>>too.
>>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>(post)rational world fleshed-out.
>>>>>technology and scientific knowledge will continue to develop, and
>>>>>parapsychospirituality will find its place in this context.
>>>>I don’t think so. Do you ever have an emotional reaction to music?
>>>yea trippy hey?
anyways, why u ask?
>>Do you think it will ever be possible to explain such
>>within the domain of science? I don’t. Science is one
>>thing people do, music is another. Is there any reason
>>to think one side of one’s brain will dominate the other?
> ah, no i dont think science will cover that. it may think about it but
> it wont replace it.
I said ‘explain’, not ‘replace’.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
>>>>>new terminology, maps, knowledge, neural correlations, brain
>>>>>manipulation/reading, neuro-tech, techniques, spiritual integration,
>>>>>psychic integration, further evolution revelation and settling in.
>>>>>the rational enlightenment is really only beginning.
>>>>Perhaps it’s just a stop along the way.
>>>yeah
>>>>>what is now here and there, confusing, or only suggested will soon be
>>>>>common, clear, and created.
>>>>Like why people don’t like wide ties anymore? Or are they back now?
>>>no the kinda stuff that excites the world.
>>Depends on one’s world I suppose. Tell that for intance,
>>to Calvin Klein.
>>>>>unless there are huge set-backs rationality and postrationality should
>>>>>continue to CUT through.
>>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>a rational/postrational fleshed out society, as we have begun to be,
>>>>>will if healthy be ruled by rational/postrational centred
>>>>>individuals… in mind and heart. there will still be prerationals…
>>>>>i think the higher levels will effect nearly all minds, and make the
>>>>>path very easy, but many will still be CENTRED in prerational… and in
>>>>Prerational?
>>>>http:\\www.becominghuman.org
>>>>Take a look at the documentary, esp. the section on neandertals.
>>>>They were rational beings. Entirely what you probably think of
>>>>as ‘cave men’. Interesting exercise to think about that, too.
>>>well i know there is another meaning to rational but its not what i
>>>mean.
>>I know that. I still meant what I wrote.
>>>>>a healthy (post)rational world with a strong awareness of evolution,
>>>>Ha! There is no awareness of evoltion. Evolution is a process that
>>>>occurs on a geological timescale, not perceivable by humans.
>>>right…but that doesnt exclude it from knowledge awareness.
>>You are talking about culture. Culture itself is not ‘aware’
>>of anything, only the individuals in it are.
> yeah, but it gets to that point in collective awareness where you can
> generalize, or atleast point out mini-cultural worldviews within larger
> cultures. i think cultures will always have many levels and types, im
> thinking of the centre-of-gravity…and especially the
> centre-of-gravity of power.
‘Collective awareness’ could be a metaphor for culture. If so
it’s not a particularly good one.
F.Y.I. There is only 1 culture: human culture. Just read
the book. I read it on the recommendation of a friend, and though
I consider it tripe, I also think it provides a reasonably good
orientation, of sorts, or if you like, it makes a good ‘introductory’
text. Which, judging by this response, is something you could use.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
>>>anyway you can be aware of levels if not evolution as a structure
>>>rather than a process, but both pov’s are being manifested.
>>One can be familiar with the *idea* of evolution, and either
>>believe it or not.
>>>>It is, at the end of the day, something that can only be believed
>>>>in.
>>>like nearly anything..
>>No, there are many things that can be experienced first hand.
> other than direct internal experience which assumes no objective
> reality its all belief, getting beyond ourself. even if i am
> experiencing being at a concert or on a bus at this very moment any
> suggestion beyond the experienced appearance is still a belief.
Not what I meant at all. I mean some things, for instance Newton’s
third law, can be experienced first hand and therefore do not
require ‘belief’. Evolution is not like that.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
>>>>>particularily in human history and human psychological growth, this
>>>>I hate to say this, I personally think the book is excrement, but
>>>>perhaps you might like to read ‘The Story of B’.
>>>k…whyd that pop up?
>>Because you are talking about human culture, specifically the
>>developement thereof in a historical context, which is the
>>subject of that book. If you read it you will understand.
> heard about the fossils of supposed other species of humanlike beings
> discovered in indonesia.. the "hobbits"..?
Sure. (Florencis I think) So what? There have been many many species of
humans in the last 4 million years or so. Those guys were a little on
the small side by current ‘modern’ standards, which makes for good sound
bytes and other 30 second attention span getting news flashes,
but realistically I don’t see anything remarkable about it at all.
Neanderthals were different from our species too. So what?
The book I have recommended to you is about *modern* culture, and has
nothing whatsoever to do with geology.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
>>>>>will be totally expected and accepted with the humility that we’ve all
>>>>>been there…but upward movement will still be encouraged as the
>>>>>natural flow… even beyond mental.
>>>>>reason still appears very primitive and selfcentred.
>>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>there’s not much point in my body getting out if im not watching… and
>>>>>not much point in watching if my body’s not going out, either.
>>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>my mind is like the moon, where im building a space-station as a
>>>>>launching bad to the further planets. i need to come back to earth more
>>>>>often, stay in touch with the foundation.
>>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>external-input/output to/from consciousness interests me. reflective
>>>>>consciousness and intentional output. realworld, oobe’s, esp, higher
>>>>>dimensions, intuition, etc. all the ways i interact with reality
>>>>>outside myself.
>>>>>the interaction of t-fields and the brain creating thought interests
>>>>>me… and the interaction with other peoples t-fields causing
>>>>>telepathic consciousness.
>>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>energy-feeling.
>>>>>emotion/feeling is magick..? a link between within and without?
>>>>>intentional actuion seems intimately related to feeling awareness.
>>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>trippy is reality being shown to be illusion, an interior spectacle.
>>>>>it’s an experience that defies realities norms.
>>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>POV-shift, please.
>>>>>being-in-the-world vs world-being-in-me.
>>>>>bodyland vs dreamland. (atoms vs images)
>>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>"we’re just protons, neutrons, electrons…" -catempire.
>>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>all input/output is via energy?
>>>>>i am energy-feeling? independent of the body?
>>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>im looking for intellectual enlightenment, spiritual enlightenment, and
>>>>>healthy functioning "enlightenment"…!
>>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>"the look of a feeling"……
>>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>knowledge – logic – illumination
>>>>>science/psychology – philosophy – spirituality
>>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>wilber talks of the same 3 types of science disclosed by the 3 eyes
>>>>>(the eye of flesh, mind, and spirit).
>>>>>but he arranged it as body-> spirit. and i was confused because for
>>>>>the eye of mind he ONLY put logical certainty…not mental
>>>>>awareness/introspection…which would be psychology…and in the realm
>>>>>of verifiable truth, not pure logic.
>>>>>has to be a place for external truth, internal truth, logical
>>>>>precision, and mystical illumination.
>>>>>verifiable facts, self-evident logic, primordial wisdom.
>>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>T -> UT -> O
>>>>>manhood -> HGA -> Nothing/Nuit
>>>>>"so at last get OUT"
>>>>>OUT is integrating all dimensions, because you cannot come back the
>>>>>same way (O -> UT -> T)?
>>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>Is that a joke? Name some ‘place’ you *can* ‘come back from’.
>>>>It’s like the old saying, ‘lighting never strikes the same
>>>>place twice, because no place is the same after it’s been
>>>>hit by lightning.’
>>>yeah, but yknow what i mean :p lol
>>I know what you meant, I think. I still meant what I wrote.
>>>>>anyway, if thats right then i think magick in the higest sense is the
>>>>>way OUT. but can also dawdle around, or can focus on
>>>>Not really. It’s *a* way. Not the only way. Which way you
>>>>choose is of course,
…
read more »
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
Martin Swain wrote:
> m-urana wrote:
> > Martin Swain wrote:
> >>m-urana wrote:
> >>>martin swain wrote:
> >>>>m-urana wrote:
> >>>>>neuroscience is so young i dont know how accurate leary’s model of the
> >>>>>8 circuits could be… might have jumped the gun.
> >>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>>>>paraneuropsychology…
> >>>>>psychological, spiritual, neurological, and psychic.
> >>>>>i think these will all come together.
> >>>>>neurology + psychology will deepen the integration as neuroscience
> >>>>>evolves… and spirituality will continue edging its way in…while
> >>>>>energy studies in science and parapsychology also gain weight.
> >>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>>>>though this is the focus…the "parasociocultural" context has to be
> >>>>>remembered… the organism is part of social and environmental
> >>>>>contexts… the energy system is part of psychic networks… the mind
> >>>>>is shaped by cultural mindsets… and they all interact with each other
> >>>>>too.
> >>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>>>>(post)rational world fleshed-out.
> >>>>>technology and scientific knowledge will continue to develop, and
> >>>>>parapsychospirituality will find its place in this context.
> >>>>I don’t think so. Do you ever have an emotional reaction to music?
> >>>yea trippy hey?
anyways, why u ask?
> >>Do you think it will ever be possible to explain such
> >>within the domain of science? I don’t. Science is one
> >>thing people do, music is another. Is there any reason
> >>to think one side of one’s brain will dominate the other?
> > ah, no i dont think science will cover that. it may think about it but
> > it wont replace it.
> I said ‘explain’, not ‘replace’.
well it depends on what you mean by science, in a broad sense i think
it probably can explain these things and has been.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> >>>>>new terminology, maps, knowledge, neural correlations, brain
> >>>>>manipulation/reading, neuro-tech, techniques, spiritual integration,
> >>>>>psychic integration, further evolution revelation and settling in.
> >>>>>the rational enlightenment is really only beginning.
> >>>>Perhaps it’s just a stop along the way.
> >>>yeah
> >>>>>what is now here and there, confusing, or only suggested will soon be
> >>>>>common, clear, and created.
> >>>>Like why people don’t like wide ties anymore? Or are they back now?
> >>>no the kinda stuff that excites the world.
> >>Depends on one’s world I suppose. Tell that for intance,
> >>to Calvin Klein.
> >>>>>unless there are huge set-backs rationality and postrationality should
> >>>>>continue to CUT through.
> >>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>>>>a rational/postrational fleshed out society, as we have begun to be,
> >>>>>will if healthy be ruled by rational/postrational centred
> >>>>>individuals… in mind and heart. there will still be prerationals…
> >>>>>i think the higher levels will effect nearly all minds, and make the
> >>>>>path very easy, but many will still be CENTRED in prerational… and in
> >>>>Prerational?
> >>>>http:\\www.becominghuman.org
> >>>>Take a look at the documentary, esp. the section on neandertals.
> >>>>They were rational beings. Entirely what you probably think of
> >>>>as ‘cave men’. Interesting exercise to think about that, too.
> >>>well i know there is another meaning to rational but its not what i
> >>>mean.
> >>I know that. I still meant what I wrote.
> >>>>>a healthy (post)rational world with a strong awareness of evolution,
> >>>>Ha! There is no awareness of evoltion. Evolution is a process that
> >>>>occurs on a geological timescale, not perceivable by humans.
> >>>right…but that doesnt exclude it from knowledge awareness.
> >>You are talking about culture. Culture itself is not ‘aware’
> >>of anything, only the individuals in it are.
> > yeah, but it gets to that point in collective awareness where you can
> > generalize, or atleast point out mini-cultural worldviews within larger
> > cultures. i think cultures will always have many levels and types, im
> > thinking of the centre-of-gravity…and especially the
> > centre-of-gravity of power.
> ‘Collective awareness’ could be a metaphor for culture. If so
> it’s not a particularly good one.
> F.Y.I. There is only 1 culture: human culture. Just read
thats a bit silly, there are many types of human culture on earth and
so many cultures within this larger & fragmented network.
> the book. I read it on the recommendation of a friend, and though
> I consider it tripe, I also think it provides a reasonably good
> orientation, of sorts, or if you like, it makes a good ‘introductory’
> text. Which, judging by this response, is something you could use.
never liked the cultural quadrant anyways
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> >>>anyway you can be aware of levels if not evolution as a structure
> >>>rather than a process, but both pov’s are being manifested.
> >>One can be familiar with the *idea* of evolution, and either
> >>believe it or not.
> >>>>It is, at the end of the day, something that can only be believed
> >>>>in.
> >>>like nearly anything..
> >>No, there are many things that can be experienced first hand.
> > other than direct internal experience which assumes no objective
> > reality its all belief, getting beyond ourself. even if i am
> > experiencing being at a concert or on a bus at this very moment any
> > suggestion beyond the experienced appearance is still a belief.
> Not what I meant at all. I mean some things, for instance Newton’s
> third law, can be experienced first hand and therefore do not
> require ‘belief’. Evolution is not like that.
why isnt evolution the same… cos of the limites of our life-time alot
of it may be a reconstruction of the past, but we can observe it in
children growing into adults or in ourselves and verify evolutionary
theories that way if u like…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> >>>>>particularily in human history and human psychological growth, this
> >>>>I hate to say this, I personally think the book is excrement, but
> >>>>perhaps you might like to read ‘The Story of B’.
> >>>k…whyd that pop up?
> >>Because you are talking about human culture, specifically the
> >>developement thereof in a historical context, which is the
> >>subject of that book. If you read it you will understand.
> > heard about the fossils of supposed other species of humanlike beings
> > discovered in indonesia.. the "hobbits"..?
> Sure. (Florencis I think) So what? There have been many many species of
> humans in the last 4 million years or so. Those guys were a little on
> the small side by current ‘modern’ standards, which makes for good sound
> bytes and other 30 second attention span getting news flashes,
> but realistically I don’t see anything remarkable about it at all.
> Neanderthals were different from our species too. So what?
> The book I have recommended to you is about *modern* culture, and has
> nothing whatsoever to do with geology.
i just saw it on tv 20 minutes before i posted and what you said
brought it to mind. hmm i do remember hearing of it before, but
there’ve been further developments. will be interesting to see what
light it sheds upon evolution.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> >>>>>will be totally expected and accepted with the humility that we’ve all
> >>>>>been there…but upward movement will still be encouraged as the
> >>>>>natural flow… even beyond mental.
> >>>>>reason still appears very primitive and selfcentred.
> >>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>>>>there’s not much point in my body getting out if im not watching… and
> >>>>>not much point in watching if my body’s not going out, either.
> >>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>>>>my mind is like the moon, where im building a space-station as a
> >>>>>launching bad to the further planets. i need to come back to earth more
> >>>>>often, stay in touch with the foundation.
> >>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>>>>external-input/output to/from consciousness interests me. reflective
> >>>>>consciousness and intentional output. realworld, oobe’s, esp, higher
> >>>>>dimensions, intuition, etc. all the ways i interact with reality
> >>>>>outside myself.
> >>>>>the interaction of t-fields and the brain creating thought interests
> >>>>>me… and the interaction with other peoples t-fields causing
> >>>>>telepathic consciousness.
> >>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>>>>energy-feeling.
> >>>>>emotion/feeling is magick..? a link between within and without?
> >>>>>intentional actuion seems intimately related to feeling awareness.
> >>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>>>>trippy is reality being shown to be illusion, an interior spectacle.
> >>>>>it’s an experience that defies realities norms.
> >>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>>>>POV-shift, please.
> >>>>>being-in-the-world vs world-being-in-me.
> >>>>>bodyland vs dreamland. (atoms vs images)
> >>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>>>>"we’re just protons, neutrons, electrons…" -catempire.
> >>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>>>>all input/output is via energy?
> >>>>>i am energy-feeling? independent of the body?
> >>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>>>>im looking for intellectual enlightenment, spiritual enlightenment, and
> >>>>>healthy functioning "enlightenment"…!
> >>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>>>>"the look of a feeling"……
> >>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>>>>knowledge – logic – illumination
> >>>>>science/psychology – philosophy – spirituality
> >>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>>>>wilber talks of the same 3 types of science disclosed by the 3 eyes
> >>>>>(the eye of flesh, mind, and spirit).
> >>>>>but he arranged it
…
read more »
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
m-urana wrote:
> Martin Swain wrote:
>>m-urana wrote:
>>>Martin Swain wrote:
>>>>m-urana wrote:
>>>>>martin swain wrote:
>>>>>>m-urana wrote:
>>>>>>>neuroscience is so young i dont know how accurate leary’s model of the
>>>>>>>8 circuits could be… might have jumped the gun.
>>>>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>>>paraneuropsychology…
>>>>>>>psychological, spiritual, neurological, and psychic.
>>>>>>>i think these will all come together.
>>>>>>>neurology + psychology will deepen the integration as neuroscience
>>>>>>>evolves… and spirituality will continue edging its way in…while
>>>>>>>energy studies in science and parapsychology also gain weight.
>>>>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>>>though this is the focus…the "parasociocultural" context has to be
>>>>>>>remembered… the organism is part of social and environmental
>>>>>>>contexts… the energy system is part of psychic networks… the mind
>>>>>>>is shaped by cultural mindsets… and they all interact with each other
>>>>>>>too.
>>>>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>>>(post)rational world fleshed-out.
>>>>>>>technology and scientific knowledge will continue to develop, and
>>>>>>>parapsychospirituality will find its place in this context.
>>>>>>I don’t think so. Do you ever have an emotional reaction to music?
>>>>>yea trippy hey?
anyways, why u ask?
>>>>Do you think it will ever be possible to explain such
>>>>within the domain of science? I don’t. Science is one
>>>>thing people do, music is another. Is there any reason
>>>>to think one side of one’s brain will dominate the other?
>>>ah, no i dont think science will cover that. it may think about it but
>>>it wont replace it.
>>I said ‘explain’, not ‘replace’.
> well it depends on what you mean by science, in a broad sense i think
> it probably can explain these things and has been.
No it hasn’t. Never will either, for the reasons I stated earlier.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
>>>>>>>new terminology, maps, knowledge, neural correlations, brain
>>>>>>>manipulation/reading, neuro-tech, techniques, spiritual integration,
>>>>>>>psychic integration, further evolution revelation and settling in.
>>>>>>>the rational enlightenment is really only beginning.
>>>>>>Perhaps it’s just a stop along the way.
>>>>>yeah
>>>>>>>what is now here and there, confusing, or only suggested will soon be
>>>>>>>common, clear, and created.
>>>>>>Like why people don’t like wide ties anymore? Or are they back now?
>>>>>no the kinda stuff that excites the world.
>>>>Depends on one’s world I suppose. Tell that for intance,
>>>>to Calvin Klein.
>>>>>>>unless there are huge set-backs rationality and postrationality should
>>>>>>>continue to CUT through.
>>>>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>>>a rational/postrational fleshed out society, as we have begun to be,
>>>>>>>will if healthy be ruled by rational/postrational centred
>>>>>>>individuals… in mind and heart. there will still be prerationals…
>>>>>>>i think the higher levels will effect nearly all minds, and make the
>>>>>>>path very easy, but many will still be CENTRED in prerational… and in
>>>>>>Prerational?
>>>>>>http:\\www.becominghuman.org
>>>>>>Take a look at the documentary, esp. the section on neandertals.
>>>>>>They were rational beings. Entirely what you probably think of
>>>>>>as ‘cave men’. Interesting exercise to think about that, too.
>>>>>well i know there is another meaning to rational but its not what i
>>>>>mean.
>>>>I know that. I still meant what I wrote.
>>>>>>>a healthy (post)rational world with a strong awareness of evolution,
>>>>>>Ha! There is no awareness of evoltion. Evolution is a process that
>>>>>>occurs on a geological timescale, not perceivable by humans.
>>>>>right…but that doesnt exclude it from knowledge awareness.
>>>>You are talking about culture. Culture itself is not ‘aware’
>>>>of anything, only the individuals in it are.
>>>yeah, but it gets to that point in collective awareness where you can
>>>generalize, or atleast point out mini-cultural worldviews within larger
>>>cultures. i think cultures will always have many levels and types, im
>>>thinking of the centre-of-gravity…and especially the
>>>centre-of-gravity of power.
>>’Collective awareness’ could be a metaphor for culture. If so
>>it’s not a particularly good one.
>>F.Y.I. There is only 1 culture: human culture. Just read
> thats a bit silly, there are many types of human culture on earth and
> so many cultures within this larger & fragmented network.
No there isn’t. If you read the book I recommended you will
understand. It’s an easy book to read, a novel actually. A
bit boring, but not overly intimidating in it’s language
or presentation.
>>the book. I read it on the recommendation of a friend, and though
>>I consider it tripe, I also think it provides a reasonably good
>>orientation, of sorts, or if you like, it makes a good ‘introductory’
>>text. Which, judging by this response, is something you could use.
> never liked the cultural quadrant anyways
Come on now. It’s exactly what you’ve been writing about, and so
I assume thinking about.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
>>>>>anyway you can be aware of levels if not evolution as a structure
>>>>>rather than a process, but both pov’s are being manifested.
>>>>One can be familiar with the *idea* of evolution, and either
>>>>believe it or not.
>>>>>>It is, at the end of the day, something that can only be believed
>>>>>>in.
>>>>>like nearly anything..
>>>>No, there are many things that can be experienced first hand.
>>>other than direct internal experience which assumes no objective
>>>reality its all belief, getting beyond ourself. even if i am
>>>experiencing being at a concert or on a bus at this very moment any
>>>suggestion beyond the experienced appearance is still a belief.
>>Not what I meant at all. I mean some things, for instance Newton’s
>>third law, can be experienced first hand and therefore do not
>>require ‘belief’. Evolution is not like that.
> why isnt evolution the same…
As I said, it is not directly observable. You would have to know
something about geology to have a direct understanding as to
why that is. This may help a bit:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/timescale.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_evolution
> cos of the limites of our life-time alot
> of it may be a reconstruction of the past, but we can observe it in
> children growing into adults or in ourselves and verify evolutionary
> theories that way if u like…
Not really.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
>>>>>>>particularily in human history and human psychological growth, this
>>>>>>I hate to say this, I personally think the book is excrement, but
>>>>>>perhaps you might like to read ‘The Story of B’.
>>>>>k…whyd that pop up?
>>>>Because you are talking about human culture, specifically the
>>>>developement thereof in a historical context, which is the
>>>>subject of that book. If you read it you will understand.
>>>heard about the fossils of supposed other species of humanlike beings
>>>discovered in indonesia.. the "hobbits"..?
>>Sure. (Florencis I think) So what? There have been many many species of
>>humans in the last 4 million years or so. Those guys were a little on
>>the small side by current ‘modern’ standards, which makes for good sound
>>bytes and other 30 second attention span getting news flashes,
>>but realistically I don’t see anything remarkable about it at all.
>>Neanderthals were different from our species too. So what?
>>The book I have recommended to you is about *modern* culture, and has
>>nothing whatsoever to do with geology.
> i just saw it on tv 20 minutes before i posted and what you said
> brought it to mind. hmm i do remember hearing of it before, but
> there’ve been further developments. will be interesting to see what
> light it sheds upon evolution.
None whatsoever, rest assured. It may affect the details in the
textbooks, but as to the overall understanding of evolution, not at all.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
>>>>>>>will be totally expected and accepted with the humility that we’ve all
>>>>>>>been there…but upward movement will still be encouraged as the
>>>>>>>natural flow… even beyond mental.
>>>>>>>reason still appears very primitive and selfcentred.
>>>>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>>>there’s not much point in my body getting out if im not watching… and
>>>>>>>not much point in watching if my body’s not going out, either.
>>>>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>>>my mind is like the moon, where im building a space-station as a
>>>>>>>launching bad to the further planets. i need to come back to earth more
>>>>>>>often, stay in touch with the foundation.
>>>>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>>>external-input/output to/from consciousness interests me. reflective
>>>>>>>consciousness and intentional output. realworld, oobe’s, esp, higher
>>>>>>>dimensions, intuition, etc. all the ways i interact with reality
>>>>>>>outside myself.
>>>>>>>the interaction of t-fields and the brain creating thought interests
>>>>>>>me… and the interaction with other peoples t-fields causing
>>>>>>>telepathic consciousness.
>>>>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>>>energy-feeling.
>>>>>>>emotion/feeling is magick..? a link between within and without?
>>>>>>>intentional actuion seems intimately related to feeling awareness.
>>>>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>>>trippy is reality being shown to be illusion, an interior spectacle.
>>>>>>>it’s an experience that defies realities norms.
>>>>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>>>POV-shift, please.
…
read more »
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
Martin Swain wrote:
> m-urana wrote:
> > Martin Swain wrote:
> >>m-urana wrote:
> >>>Martin Swain wrote:
> >>>>m-urana wrote:
> >>>>>martin swain wrote:
> >>>>>>m-urana wrote:
> >>>>>>>neuroscience is so young i dont know how accurate leary’s model of the
> >>>>>>>8 circuits could be… might have jumped the gun.
> >>>>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>>>>>>paraneuropsychology…
> >>>>>>>psychological, spiritual, neurological, and psychic.
> >>>>>>>i think these will all come together.
> >>>>>>>neurology + psychology will deepen the integration as neuroscience
> >>>>>>>evolves… and spirituality will continue edging its way in…while
> >>>>>>>energy studies in science and parapsychology also gain weight.
> >>>>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>>>>>>though this is the focus…the "parasociocultural" context has to be
> >>>>>>>remembered… the organism is part of social and environmental
> >>>>>>>contexts… the energy system is part of psychic networks… the mind
> >>>>>>>is shaped by cultural mindsets… and they all interact with each other
> >>>>>>>too.
> >>>>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>>>>>>(post)rational world fleshed-out.
> >>>>>>>technology and scientific knowledge will continue to develop, and
> >>>>>>>parapsychospirituality will find its place in this context.
> >>>>>>I don’t think so. Do you ever have an emotional reaction to music?
> >>>>>yea trippy hey?
anyways, why u ask?
> >>>>Do you think it will ever be possible to explain such
> >>>>within the domain of science? I don’t. Science is one
> >>>>thing people do, music is another. Is there any reason
> >>>>to think one side of one’s brain will dominate the other?
> >>>ah, no i dont think science will cover that. it may think about it but
> >>>it wont replace it.
> >>I said ‘explain’, not ‘replace’.
> > well it depends on what you mean by science, in a broad sense i think
> > it probably can explain these things and has been.
> No it hasn’t. Never will either, for the reasons I stated earlier.
i liked marilyn mansons quote from when he gave a philosophy lecture at
university, that for him art is a question mark.
i think in its essential significance it is.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> >>>>>>>new terminology, maps, knowledge, neural correlations, brain
> >>>>>>>manipulation/reading, neuro-tech, techniques, spiritual integration,
> >>>>>>>psychic integration, further evolution revelation and settling in.
> >>>>>>>the rational enlightenment is really only beginning.
> >>>>>>Perhaps it’s just a stop along the way.
> >>>>>yeah
> >>>>>>>what is now here and there, confusing, or only suggested will soon be
> >>>>>>>common, clear, and created.
> >>>>>>Like why people don’t like wide ties anymore? Or are they back now?
> >>>>>no the kinda stuff that excites the world.
> >>>>Depends on one’s world I suppose. Tell that for intance,
> >>>>to Calvin Klein.
> >>>>>>>unless there are huge set-backs rationality and postrationality should
> >>>>>>>continue to CUT through.
> >>>>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>>>>>>a rational/postrational fleshed out society, as we have begun to be,
> >>>>>>>will if healthy be ruled by rational/postrational centred
> >>>>>>>individuals… in mind and heart. there will still be prerationals…
> >>>>>>>i think the higher levels will effect nearly all minds, and make the
> >>>>>>>path very easy, but many will still be CENTRED in prerational… and in
> >>>>>>Prerational?
> >>>>>>http:\\www.becominghuman.org
> >>>>>>Take a look at the documentary, esp. the section on neandertals.
> >>>>>>They were rational beings. Entirely what you probably think of
> >>>>>>as ‘cave men’. Interesting exercise to think about that, too.
> >>>>>well i know there is another meaning to rational but its not what i
> >>>>>mean.
> >>>>I know that. I still meant what I wrote.
> >>>>>>>a healthy (post)rational world with a strong awareness of evolution,
> >>>>>>Ha! There is no awareness of evoltion. Evolution is a process that
> >>>>>>occurs on a geological timescale, not perceivable by humans.
> >>>>>right…but that doesnt exclude it from knowledge awareness.
> >>>>You are talking about culture. Culture itself is not ‘aware’
> >>>>of anything, only the individuals in it are.
> >>>yeah, but it gets to that point in collective awareness where you can
> >>>generalize, or atleast point out mini-cultural worldviews within larger
> >>>cultures. i think cultures will always have many levels and types, im
> >>>thinking of the centre-of-gravity…and especially the
> >>>centre-of-gravity of power.
> >>’Collective awareness’ could be a metaphor for culture. If so
> >>it’s not a particularly good one.
> >>F.Y.I. There is only 1 culture: human culture. Just read
> > thats a bit silly, there are many types of human culture on earth and
> > so many cultures within this larger & fragmented network.
> No there isn’t. If you read the book I recommended you will
> understand. It’s an easy book to read, a novel actually. A
> bit boring, but not overly intimidating in it’s language
> or presentation.
> >>the book. I read it on the recommendation of a friend, and though
> >>I consider it tripe, I also think it provides a reasonably good
> >>orientation, of sorts, or if you like, it makes a good ‘introductory’
> >>text. Which, judging by this response, is something you could use.
> > never liked the cultural quadrant anyways
> Come on now. It’s exactly what you’ve been writing about, and so
> I assume thinking about.
yea yea i am into sociocultural analysis and future speculations, but
its secondary to the individual and its always confused me a bit more
than the individual.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> >>>>>anyway you can be aware of levels if not evolution as a structure
> >>>>>rather than a process, but both pov’s are being manifested.
> >>>>One can be familiar with the *idea* of evolution, and either
> >>>>believe it or not.
> >>>>>>It is, at the end of the day, something that can only be believed
> >>>>>>in.
> >>>>>like nearly anything..
> >>>>No, there are many things that can be experienced first hand.
> >>>other than direct internal experience which assumes no objective
> >>>reality its all belief, getting beyond ourself. even if i am
> >>>experiencing being at a concert or on a bus at this very moment any
> >>>suggestion beyond the experienced appearance is still a belief.
> >>Not what I meant at all. I mean some things, for instance Newton’s
> >>third law, can be experienced first hand and therefore do not
> >>require ‘belief’. Evolution is not like that.
> > why isnt evolution the same…
> As I said, it is not directly observable. You would have to know
> something about geology to have a direct understanding as to
> why that is. This may help a bit:
> http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/timescale.html
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_evolution
> > cos of the limites of our life-time alot
> > of it may be a reconstruction of the past, but we can observe it in
> > children growing into adults or in ourselves and verify evolutionary
> > theories that way if u like…
> Not really.
look i just think it is very obvious that we have an evolutionary
awareness, on whatever level of truth you want to think that is.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> >>>>>>>particularily in human history and human psychological growth, this
> >>>>>>I hate to say this, I personally think the book is excrement, but
> >>>>>>perhaps you might like to read ‘The Story of B’.
> >>>>>k…whyd that pop up?
> >>>>Because you are talking about human culture, specifically the
> >>>>developement thereof in a historical context, which is the
> >>>>subject of that book. If you read it you will understand.
> >>>heard about the fossils of supposed other species of humanlike beings
> >>>discovered in indonesia.. the "hobbits"..?
> >>Sure. (Florencis I think) So what? There have been many many species of
> >>humans in the last 4 million years or so. Those guys were a little on
> >>the small side by current ‘modern’ standards, which makes for good sound
> >>bytes and other 30 second attention span getting news flashes,
> >>but realistically I don’t see anything remarkable about it at all.
> >>Neanderthals were different from our species too. So what?
> >>The book I have recommended to you is about *modern* culture, and has
> >>nothing whatsoever to do with geology.
> > i just saw it on tv 20 minutes before i posted and what you said
> > brought it to mind. hmm i do remember hearing of it before, but
> > there’ve been further developments. will be interesting to see what
> > light it sheds upon evolution.
> None whatsoever, rest assured. It may affect the details in the
> textbooks, but as to the overall understanding of evolution, not at all.
> >>>>>>>will be totally expected and accepted with the humility that we’ve all
> >>>>>>>been there…but upward movement will still be encouraged as the
> >>>>>>>natural flow… even beyond mental.
> >>>>>>>reason still appears very primitive and selfcentred.
> >>>>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>>>>>>there’s not much point in my body getting out if im not watching… and
> >>>>>>>not much point in watching if my body’s not going out, either.
> >>>>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>>>>>>my mind is like the moon, where im building a space-station as a
> >>>>>>>launching bad to the further planets. i need
…
read more »
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
m-urana wrote:
> Martin Swain wrote:
>>m-urana wrote:
>>>Martin Swain wrote:
>>>>m-urana wrote:
>>>>>Martin Swain wrote:
>>>>>>m-urana wrote:
>>>>>>>martin swain wrote:
>>>>>>>>m-urana wrote:
>>>>>>>>>neuroscience is so young i dont know how accurate leary’s model of the
>>>>>>>>>8 circuits could be… might have jumped the gun.
>>>>>>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>>>>>paraneuropsychology…
>>>>>>>>>psychological, spiritual, neurological, and psychic.
>>>>>>>>>i think these will all come together.
>>>>>>>>>neurology + psychology will deepen the integration as neuroscience
>>>>>>>>>evolves… and spirituality will continue edging its way in…while
>>>>>>>>>energy studies in science and parapsychology also gain weight.
>>>>>>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>>>>>though this is the focus…the "parasociocultural" context has to be
>>>>>>>>>remembered… the organism is part of social and environmental
>>>>>>>>>contexts… the energy system is part of psychic networks… the mind
>>>>>>>>>is shaped by cultural mindsets… and they all interact with each other
>>>>>>>>>too.
>>>>>>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>>>>>(post)rational world fleshed-out.
>>>>>>>>>technology and scientific knowledge will continue to develop, and
>>>>>>>>>parapsychospirituality will find its place in this context.
>>>>>>>>I don’t think so. Do you ever have an emotional reaction to music?
>>>>>>>yea trippy hey?
anyways, why u ask?
>>>>>>Do you think it will ever be possible to explain such
>>>>>>within the domain of science? I don’t. Science is one
>>>>>>thing people do, music is another. Is there any reason
>>>>>>to think one side of one’s brain will dominate the other?
>>>>>ah, no i dont think science will cover that. it may think about it but
>>>>>it wont replace it.
>>>>I said ‘explain’, not ‘replace’.
>>>well it depends on what you mean by science, in a broad sense i think
>>>it probably can explain these things and has been.
>>No it hasn’t. Never will either, for the reasons I stated earlier.
> i liked marilyn mansons quote from when he gave a philosophy lecture at
> university, that for him art is a question mark.
> i think in its essential significance it is.
He’s a pretty smart guy. I love his paintings. Seen him in concert too,
which was cool.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
>>>>>>>>>new terminology, maps, knowledge, neural correlations, brain
>>>>>>>>>manipulation/reading, neuro-tech, techniques, spiritual integration,
>>>>>>>>>psychic integration, further evolution revelation and settling in.
>>>>>>>>>the rational enlightenment is really only beginning.
>>>>>>>>Perhaps it’s just a stop along the way.
>>>>>>>yeah
>>>>>>>>>what is now here and there, confusing, or only suggested will soon be
>>>>>>>>>common, clear, and created.
>>>>>>>>Like why people don’t like wide ties anymore? Or are they back now?
>>>>>>>no the kinda stuff that excites the world.
>>>>>>Depends on one’s world I suppose. Tell that for intance,
>>>>>>to Calvin Klein.
>>>>>>>>>unless there are huge set-backs rationality and postrationality should
>>>>>>>>>continue to CUT through.
>>>>>>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>>>>>a rational/postrational fleshed out society, as we have begun to be,
>>>>>>>>>will if healthy be ruled by rational/postrational centred
>>>>>>>>>individuals… in mind and heart. there will still be prerationals…
>>>>>>>>>i think the higher levels will effect nearly all minds, and make the
>>>>>>>>>path very easy, but many will still be CENTRED in prerational… and in
>>>>>>>>Prerational?
>>>>>>>>http:\\www.becominghuman.org
>>>>>>>>Take a look at the documentary, esp. the section on neandertals.
>>>>>>>>They were rational beings. Entirely what you probably think of
>>>>>>>>as ‘cave men’. Interesting exercise to think about that, too.
>>>>>>>well i know there is another meaning to rational but its not what i
>>>>>>>mean.
>>>>>>I know that. I still meant what I wrote.
>>>>>>>>>a healthy (post)rational world with a strong awareness of evolution,
>>>>>>>>Ha! There is no awareness of evoltion. Evolution is a process that
>>>>>>>>occurs on a geological timescale, not perceivable by humans.
>>>>>>>right…but that doesnt exclude it from knowledge awareness.
>>>>>>You are talking about culture. Culture itself is not ‘aware’
>>>>>>of anything, only the individuals in it are.
>>>>>yeah, but it gets to that point in collective awareness where you can
>>>>>generalize, or atleast point out mini-cultural worldviews within larger
>>>>>cultures. i think cultures will always have many levels and types, im
>>>>>thinking of the centre-of-gravity…and especially the
>>>>>centre-of-gravity of power.
>>>>’Collective awareness’ could be a metaphor for culture. If so
>>>>it’s not a particularly good one.
>>>>F.Y.I. There is only 1 culture: human culture. Just read
>>>thats a bit silly, there are many types of human culture on earth and
>>>so many cultures within this larger & fragmented network.
>>No there isn’t. If you read the book I recommended you will
>>understand. It’s an easy book to read, a novel actually. A
>>bit boring, but not overly intimidating in it’s language
>>or presentation.
>>>>the book. I read it on the recommendation of a friend, and though
>>>>I consider it tripe, I also think it provides a reasonably good
>>>>orientation, of sorts, or if you like, it makes a good ‘introductory’
>>>>text. Which, judging by this response, is something you could use.
>>>never liked the cultural quadrant anyways
>>Come on now. It’s exactly what you’ve been writing about, and so
>>I assume thinking about.
> yea yea i am into sociocultural analysis and future speculations, but
> its secondary to the individual and its always confused me a bit more
> than the individual.
If everything was easy there wouldn’t be any fun in learning.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
>>>>>>>anyway you can be aware of levels if not evolution as a structure
>>>>>>>rather than a process, but both pov’s are being manifested.
>>>>>>One can be familiar with the *idea* of evolution, and either
>>>>>>believe it or not.
>>>>>>>>It is, at the end of the day, something that can only be believed
>>>>>>>>in.
>>>>>>>like nearly anything..
>>>>>>No, there are many things that can be experienced first hand.
>>>>>other than direct internal experience which assumes no objective
>>>>>reality its all belief, getting beyond ourself. even if i am
>>>>>experiencing being at a concert or on a bus at this very moment any
>>>>>suggestion beyond the experienced appearance is still a belief.
>>>>Not what I meant at all. I mean some things, for instance Newton’s
>>>>third law, can be experienced first hand and therefore do not
>>>>require ‘belief’. Evolution is not like that.
>>>why isnt evolution the same…
>>As I said, it is not directly observable. You would have to know
>>something about geology to have a direct understanding as to
>>why that is. This may help a bit:
>>http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/timescale.html
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_evolution
>>>cos of the limites of our life-time alot
>>>of it may be a reconstruction of the past, but we can observe it in
>>>children growing into adults or in ourselves and verify evolutionary
>>>theories that way if u like…
>>Not really.
> look i just think it is very obvious that we have an evolutionary
> awareness, on whatever level of truth you want to think that is.
Have you heard about the debates regarding ‘Intelligent design’?
The people who support it are intelligent, reasonable people (somewhat)
yet they reject the idea. Do you think they have this awareness
you are reffering to?
Try this experiment if you like. Talk to a few people, say 10 – 20,
and ask them if they believe they are a kind of ape. In my experience,
1 in 10 or so will say ‘yes I believe I am a kind of ape.’ The other
9 will reject the idea out of hand.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
>>>>>>>>>particularily in human history and human psychological growth, this
>>>>>>>>I hate to say this, I personally think the book is excrement, but
>>>>>>>>perhaps you might like to read ‘The Story of B’.
>>>>>>>k…whyd that pop up?
>>>>>>Because you are talking about human culture, specifically the
>>>>>>developement thereof in a historical context, which is the
>>>>>>subject of that book. If you read it you will understand.
>>>>>heard about the fossils of supposed other species of humanlike beings
>>>>>discovered in indonesia.. the "hobbits"..?
>>>>Sure. (Florencis I think) So what? There have been many many species of
>>>>humans in the last 4 million years or so. Those guys were a little on
>>>>the small side by current ‘modern’ standards, which makes for good sound
>>>>bytes and other 30 second attention span getting news flashes,
>>>>but realistically I don’t see anything remarkable about it at all.
>>>>Neanderthals were different from our species too. So what?
>>>>The book I have recommended to you is about *modern* culture, and has
>>>>nothing whatsoever to do with geology.
>>>i just saw it on tv 20 minutes before i posted and what you said
>>>brought it to mind. hmm i do remember hearing of it before, but
>>>there’ve been further developments. will be interesting to see what
>>>light it sheds upon evolution.
>>None whatsoever, rest
…
read more »
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
Martin Swain wrote:
> m-urana wrote:
> > Martin Swain wrote:
> >>m-urana wrote:
> >>>Martin Swain wrote:
> >>>>m-urana wrote:
> >>>>>Martin Swain wrote:
> >>>>>>m-urana wrote:
> >>>>>>>martin swain wrote:
> >>>>>>>>m-urana wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>neuroscience is so young i dont know how accurate leary’s model of the
> >>>>>>>>>8 circuits could be… might have jumped the gun.
> >>>>>>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>>>>>>>>paraneuropsychology…
> >>>>>>>>>psychological, spiritual, neurological, and psychic.
> >>>>>>>>>i think these will all come together.
> >>>>>>>>>neurology + psychology will deepen the integration as neuroscience
> >>>>>>>>>evolves… and spirituality will continue edging its way in…while
> >>>>>>>>>energy studies in science and parapsychology also gain weight.
> >>>>>>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>>>>>>>>though this is the focus…the "parasociocultural" context has to be
> >>>>>>>>>remembered… the organism is part of social and environmental
> >>>>>>>>>contexts… the energy system is part of psychic networks… the mind
> >>>>>>>>>is shaped by cultural mindsets… and they all interact with each other
> >>>>>>>>>too.
> >>>>>>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>>>>>>>>(post)rational world fleshed-out.
> >>>>>>>>>technology and scientific knowledge will continue to develop, and
> >>>>>>>>>parapsychospirituality will find its place in this context.
> >>>>>>>>I don’t think so. Do you ever have an emotional reaction to music?
> >>>>>>>yea trippy hey?
anyways, why u ask?
> >>>>>>Do you think it will ever be possible to explain such
> >>>>>>within the domain of science? I don’t. Science is one
> >>>>>>thing people do, music is another. Is there any reason
> >>>>>>to think one side of one’s brain will dominate the other?
> >>>>>ah, no i dont think science will cover that. it may think about it but
> >>>>>it wont replace it.
> >>>>I said ‘explain’, not ‘replace’.
> >>>well it depends on what you mean by science, in a broad sense i think
> >>>it probably can explain these things and has been.
> >>No it hasn’t. Never will either, for the reasons I stated earlier.
> > i liked marilyn mansons quote from when he gave a philosophy lecture at
> > university, that for him art is a question mark.
> > i think in its essential significance it is.
> He’s a pretty smart guy. I love his paintings. Seen him in concert too,
> which was cool.
i want to see him in concert, meant to be very theatrical.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> >>>>>>>>>new terminology, maps, knowledge, neural correlations, brain
> >>>>>>>>>manipulation/reading, neuro-tech, techniques, spiritual integration,
> >>>>>>>>>psychic integration, further evolution revelation and settling in.
> >>>>>>>>>the rational enlightenment is really only beginning.
> >>>>>>>>Perhaps it’s just a stop along the way.
> >>>>>>>yeah
> >>>>>>>>>what is now here and there, confusing, or only suggested will soon be
> >>>>>>>>>common, clear, and created.
> >>>>>>>>Like why people don’t like wide ties anymore? Or are they back now?
> >>>>>>>no the kinda stuff that excites the world.
> >>>>>>Depends on one’s world I suppose. Tell that for intance,
> >>>>>>to Calvin Klein.
> >>>>>>>>>unless there are huge set-backs rationality and postrationality should
> >>>>>>>>>continue to CUT through.
> >>>>>>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>>>>>>>>a rational/postrational fleshed out society, as we have begun to be,
> >>>>>>>>>will if healthy be ruled by rational/postrational centred
> >>>>>>>>>individuals… in mind and heart. there will still be prerationals…
> >>>>>>>>>i think the higher levels will effect nearly all minds, and make the
> >>>>>>>>>path very easy, but many will still be CENTRED in prerational… and in
> >>>>>>>>Prerational?
> >>>>>>>>http:\\www.becominghuman.org
> >>>>>>>>Take a look at the documentary, esp. the section on neandertals.
> >>>>>>>>They were rational beings. Entirely what you probably think of
> >>>>>>>>as ‘cave men’. Interesting exercise to think about that, too.
> >>>>>>>well i know there is another meaning to rational but its not what i
> >>>>>>>mean.
> >>>>>>I know that. I still meant what I wrote.
> >>>>>>>>>a healthy (post)rational world with a strong awareness of evolution,
> >>>>>>>>Ha! There is no awareness of evoltion. Evolution is a process that
> >>>>>>>>occurs on a geological timescale, not perceivable by humans.
> >>>>>>>right…but that doesnt exclude it from knowledge awareness.
> >>>>>>You are talking about culture. Culture itself is not ‘aware’
> >>>>>>of anything, only the individuals in it are.
> >>>>>yeah, but it gets to that point in collective awareness where you can
> >>>>>generalize, or atleast point out mini-cultural worldviews within larger
> >>>>>cultures. i think cultures will always have many levels and types, im
> >>>>>thinking of the centre-of-gravity…and especially the
> >>>>>centre-of-gravity of power.
> >>>>’Collective awareness’ could be a metaphor for culture. If so
> >>>>it’s not a particularly good one.
> >>>>F.Y.I. There is only 1 culture: human culture. Just read
> >>>thats a bit silly, there are many types of human culture on earth and
> >>>so many cultures within this larger & fragmented network.
> >>No there isn’t. If you read the book I recommended you will
> >>understand. It’s an easy book to read, a novel actually. A
> >>bit boring, but not overly intimidating in it’s language
> >>or presentation.
> >>>>the book. I read it on the recommendation of a friend, and though
> >>>>I consider it tripe, I also think it provides a reasonably good
> >>>>orientation, of sorts, or if you like, it makes a good ‘introductory’
> >>>>text. Which, judging by this response, is something you could use.
> >>>never liked the cultural quadrant anyways
> >>Come on now. It’s exactly what you’ve been writing about, and so
> >>I assume thinking about.
> > yea yea i am into sociocultural analysis and future speculations, but
> > its secondary to the individual and its always confused me a bit more
> > than the individual.
> If everything was easy there wouldn’t be any fun in learning.
> >>>>>>>anyway you can be aware of levels if not evolution as a structure
> >>>>>>>rather than a process, but both pov’s are being manifested.
> >>>>>>One can be familiar with the *idea* of evolution, and either
> >>>>>>believe it or not.
> >>>>>>>>It is, at the end of the day, something that can only be believed
> >>>>>>>>in.
> >>>>>>>like nearly anything..
> >>>>>>No, there are many things that can be experienced first hand.
> >>>>>other than direct internal experience which assumes no objective
> >>>>>reality its all belief, getting beyond ourself. even if i am
> >>>>>experiencing being at a concert or on a bus at this very moment any
> >>>>>suggestion beyond the experienced appearance is still a belief.
> >>>>Not what I meant at all. I mean some things, for instance Newton’s
> >>>>third law, can be experienced first hand and therefore do not
> >>>>require ‘belief’. Evolution is not like that.
> >>>why isnt evolution the same…
> >>As I said, it is not directly observable. You would have to know
> >>something about geology to have a direct understanding as to
> >>why that is. This may help a bit:
> >>http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/timescale.html
> >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_evolution
> >>>cos of the limites of our life-time alot
> >>>of it may be a reconstruction of the past, but we can observe it in
> >>>children growing into adults or in ourselves and verify evolutionary
> >>>theories that way if u like…
> >>Not really.
> > look i just think it is very obvious that we have an evolutionary
> > awareness, on whatever level of truth you want to think that is.
> Have you heard about the debates regarding ‘Intelligent design’?
> The people who support it are intelligent, reasonable people (somewhat)
> yet they reject the idea. Do you think they have this awareness
> you are reffering to?
on some level, even tho they dont believe it. and there are others who
give it more credit. so there is this awareness yes.
i believe evolution is intelligent design, i havent heard the
intelligent design argument against it but i dont see the conflict.
> Try this experiment if you like. Talk to a few people, say 10 – 20,
> and ask them if they believe they are a kind of ape. In my experience,
> 1 in 10 or so will say ‘yes I believe I am a kind of ape.’ The other
> 9 will reject the idea out of hand.
yea, thats the evolution from species to species…and the theory of
apes beign our origin is common…but im not restricting evolution to
that. its not even important to my view. i just believe evolution
happens..whatever..or wherever..we came from. and im especially
interested in the evolution that occured in human history, and in human
individual psychology.
so i mean evolution as a general idea, not these specifics. personally
i believe we come from an extraterrestrial species of plant.
so………..yes most people have the idea atleast but not everyone
believes it, and i think this will change more&more as
…
read more »
m-urana wrote:
<snip>
> yea, thats the evolution from species to species…and the theory of
> apes beign our origin is common…
Guess that makes you 1 of 9. We didn’t *come* from apes, we *are* apes.
See what I mean?