Can there be no sound?
Is there such a concept of the absence of sound?
If there was a sound of constant tone/noise/detection to the
universe–is it the OHM.
steady, constant, peaceful, unchanging yet detectable and utmost
real………OOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM???
always constant yet repeating, that sound/phrase??
This was an old concept/philosophical/magical argumnet once upon a
time.
Archimage Baragund—-MELKOR
Melkor wrote:
> Can there be no sound?
One yoga exercise i do is i close my eyes a few feet in front of a very
bright lightbulb and i have the radio blaring and also a tv. Also i
drink and etc. Anything to cause a distraction. My reasoning
being if i am going to have visions then they should be brighter than
the behind the eyelids glare from a lightbulb. Also, if i am going to
enter the subtle realm, i shouldn’t have to worry about gross radios
and tv’s. With enough practice you can tune out the "noise".
If you want to explore the idea of no sound, try getting the ear
silencers gun enthusiasts use. The expensive ones are virtually
soundless. Unfortunately, they squeeze on your temporal lobes very
tightly so its gonna take time to tune out the temporal area
distraction.
> Is there such a concept of the absence of sound?
Don’t forget the mental tone/voice. Even if you could abolish sound you
would still have to still the mind which is quite loud actually.
> If there was a sound of constant tone/noise/detection to the
> universe–is it the OHM.
OM or AUM. OHM is an electrical term.
You might want to do a survey cause not everyone idolizes monotheistic
ideals like universal OM. When i was heavy into PKD, i heard bells in
the subtle realms.
Well, you know what Crowley would say? He would say, can you get the
ether to drone something else. Like perhaps "Hat" or "Tada!"
Well, this is probably the realm of clairoaudients so its probably not
magick so much as it is psychosis or mystic powers. Perhaps such a
thing has no value in magick because few people talk about it.
What do you do with this AUM? Any magickal use for it.
> steady, constant, peaceful, unchanging yet detectable and utmost
> real………OOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM???
The AUM is in INdia a magical formula. It’s called the four letter
mantra. A, U, M, and the silence between aum and the next aum.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> always constant yet repeating, that sound/phrase??
> This was an old concept/philosophical/magical argumnet once upon a
> time.
> Archimage Baragund—-MELKOR
whyzard wrote:
> Melkor wrote:
> > Can there be no sound?
i doubt a deaf-since-birth person would even think in audio.
no sound is universal, its the same nothing that everything isnt…(not
just sound) i think. the experience is unimaginable…like trying to
imagine what its like to not see, hear, feel, think and etc…whats it
like to experience nothing? i imagine it being like a feeling of pure
self-existence, but thats not right.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> One yoga exercise i do is i close my eyes a few feet in front of a very
> bright lightbulb and i have the radio blaring and also a tv. Also i
> drink and etc. Anything to cause a distraction. My reasoning
> being if i am going to have visions then they should be brighter than
> the behind the eyelids glare from a lightbulb. Also, if i am going to
> enter the subtle realm, i shouldn’t have to worry about gross radios
> and tv’s. With enough practice you can tune out the "noise".
> If you want to explore the idea of no sound, try getting the ear
> silencers gun enthusiasts use. The expensive ones are virtually
> soundless. Unfortunately, they squeeze on your temporal lobes very
> tightly so its gonna take time to tune out the temporal area
> distraction.
i get "head noise", stll a fair amount of sound even if nothing outside
me is making it.
> > Is there such a concept of the absence of sound?
> Don’t forget the mental tone/voice. Even if you could abolish sound you
> would still have to still the mind which is quite loud actually.
it would be an interesting experiment. as soon as you recognized it as
silent your imagining sound again. like you gotta drop any kind of
awareness of sound, removing it totally from ur vocabulary.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> > If there was a sound of constant tone/noise/detection to the
> > universe–is it the OHM.
> OM or AUM. OHM is an electrical term.
> You might want to do a survey cause not everyone idolizes monotheistic
> ideals like universal OM. When i was heavy into PKD, i heard bells in
> the subtle realms.
> Well, you know what Crowley would say? He would say, can you get the
> ether to drone something else. Like perhaps "Hat" or "Tada!"
> Well, this is probably the realm of clairoaudients so its probably not
> magick so much as it is psychosis or mystic powers. Perhaps such a
> thing has no value in magick because few people talk about it.
> What do you do with this AUM? Any magickal use for it.
make a universe :p
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> > steady, constant, peaceful, unchanging yet detectable and utmost
> > real………OOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM???
> The AUM is in INdia a magical formula. It’s called the four letter
> mantra. A, U, M, and the silence between aum and the next aum.
> > always constant yet repeating, that sound/phrase??
> > This was an old concept/philosophical/magical argumnet once upon a
> > time.
> > Archimage Baragund—-MELKOR
The one time I ever meditated with the OM (ohm, aum, however whatever) sound
as the focal point of my attention I came to hear it as a signal-type noise
reminiscent of a tv broadcast dropping out, that would alter in
pitch/vibration if attention wandered. After about twenty minutes I quite
clearly visualised a manger in a stable being watched over by a man in a
blue robe, surrounded by people from all walks of life. Assurances were
made that the child was safe, but I asked the robed individual his name.
Hesitance. I asked again, and his head morphed violently into that of a
serpent, who said that while he was a ‘of the serpentine order’ there was
much that I did not understand (truer words never spoken). I asked his name
once more; the ‘vision’ unwound into blackness and in a kind of ancient sigh
came ‘Fung Xian’. I snapped to and wrote it all down.
Weird huh. Best session ever. Whatever the fuck it all meant.
o-a-u-h-m
brendan
On 11 Oct 2005 23:20:19 -0700, "whyzard" <whyz…@mail.com> wrote:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
>Melkor wrote:
>> Can there be no sound?
>One yoga exercise i do is i close my eyes a few feet in front of a very
>bright lightbulb and i have the radio blaring and also a tv. Also i
>drink and etc. Anything to cause a distraction. My reasoning
>being if i am going to have visions then they should be brighter than
>the behind the eyelids glare from a lightbulb. Also, if i am going to
>enter the subtle realm, i shouldn’t have to worry about gross radios
>and tv’s. With enough practice you can tune out the "noise".
>If you want to explore the idea of no sound, try getting the ear
>silencers gun enthusiasts use. The expensive ones are virtually
>soundless. Unfortunately, they squeeze on your temporal lobes very
>tightly so its gonna take time to tune out the temporal area
>distraction.
>> Is there such a concept of the absence of sound?
>Don’t forget the mental tone/voice. Even if you could abolish sound you
>would still have to still the mind which is quite loud actually.
>> If there was a sound of constant tone/noise/detection to the
>> universe–is it the OHM.
>OM or AUM. OHM is an electrical term.
>You might want to do a survey cause not everyone idolizes monotheistic
>ideals like universal OM. When i was heavy into PKD, i heard bells in
>the subtle realms.
>Well, you know what Crowley would say? He would say, can you get the
>ether to drone something else. Like perhaps "Hat" or "Tada!"
>Well, this is probably the realm of clairoaudients so its probably not
>magick so much as it is psychosis or mystic powers. Perhaps such a
>thing has no value in magick because few people talk about it.
>What do you do with this AUM? Any magickal use for it.
>> steady, constant, peaceful, unchanging yet detectable and utmost
>> real………OOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM???
>The AUM is in INdia a magical formula. It’s called the four letter
>mantra. A, U, M, and the silence between aum and the next aum.
Yes I do recall that I always spelled it wrong….LOL, aum ohm ,
thanks for the reply
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
>> always constant yet repeating, that sound/phrase??
>> This was an old concept/philosophical/magical argumnet once upon a
>> time.
>> Archimage Baragund—-MELKOR
On 11 Oct 2005 23:40:15 -0700, "m-urana" <kosmicg…@gmail.com> wrote:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
>whyzard wrote:
>> Melkor wrote:
>> > Can there be no sound?
>i doubt a deaf-since-birth person would even think in audio.
>no sound is universal, its the same nothing that everything isnt…(not
>just sound) i think. the experience is unimaginable…like trying to
>imagine what its like to not see, hear, feel, think and etc…whats it
>like to experience nothing? i imagine it being like a feeling of pure
>self-existence, but thats not right.
>> One yoga exercise i do is i close my eyes a few feet in front of a very
>> bright lightbulb and i have the radio blaring and also a tv. Also i
>> drink and etc. Anything to cause a distraction. My reasoning
>> being if i am going to have visions then they should be brighter than
>> the behind the eyelids glare from a lightbulb. Also, if i am going to
>> enter the subtle realm, i shouldn’t have to worry about gross radios
>> and tv’s. With enough practice you can tune out the "noise".
>> If you want to explore the idea of no sound, try getting the ear
>> silencers gun enthusiasts use. The expensive ones are virtually
>> soundless. Unfortunately, they squeeze on your temporal lobes very
>> tightly so its gonna take time to tune out the temporal area
>> distraction.
>i get "head noise", stll a fair amount of sound even if nothing outside
>me is making it.
EXACTLY, while I have meditated, contemplated, theorized, tranced,
prayed, etc. all with much revelation and success and growth, the
‘head noise thing’ always bothers me and has always been a
distraction to over come. plus I think I have a Left side auricular
artery too close to the ear canal/inner ear area and ‘sweeeossh’
repeated sounds (probably from high blood pressure ) occassionally is
annoying in these regards.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
>> > Is there such a concept of the absence of sound?
>> Don’t forget the mental tone/voice. Even if you could abolish sound you
>> would still have to still the mind which is quite loud actually.
>it would be an interesting experiment. as soon as you recognized it as
>silent your imagining sound again. like you gotta drop any kind of
>awareness of sound, removing it totally from ur vocabulary.
>> > If there was a sound of constant tone/noise/detection to the
>> > universe–is it the OHM.
>> OM or AUM. OHM is an electrical term.
>> You might want to do a survey cause not everyone idolizes monotheistic
>> ideals like universal OM. When i was heavy into PKD, i heard bells in
>> the subtle realms.
>> Well, you know what Crowley would say? He would say, can you get the
>> ether to drone something else. Like perhaps "Hat" or "Tada!"
>> Well, this is probably the realm of clairoaudients so its probably not
>> magick so much as it is psychosis or mystic powers. Perhaps such a
>> thing has no value in magick because few people talk about it.
>> What do you do with this AUM? Any magickal use for it.
>make a universe :p
>> > steady, constant, peaceful, unchanging yet detectable and utmost
>> > real………OOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM???
>> The AUM is in INdia a magical formula. It’s called the four letter
>> mantra. A, U, M, and the silence between aum and the next aum.
>> > always constant yet repeating, that sound/phrase??
>> > This was an old concept/philosophical/magical argumnet once upon a
>> > time.
>> > Archimage Baragund—-MELKOR
"David Griffin" <john.david.grif…@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1129078517.411501.309290@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> Greetings to all of my students and enemies,
> It has come to my attention that there have been a number of people
> posting on my behalf without my knowledge or permission. Among these
> is a certain individual with the alias "gdtruthsee…@yahoo.com". He
> is an example of someone pretending to be on my side solely to make me
> look like a moron.
> This individual, just yesterday, claimed that Robert Zink was "flaming"
> my good name. He claims that Robert Zink is saying he does not flame
> anyone, then he seeks to illustrate that this claim is fraudulent,
> sighting the following references:
> Robert says: "Griffen is a bully. He wants it all and will create
> enemies to unite his factions."
> Now, aside from my name being misspelled, here Robert has made a simple
> statement about me based on his own experience. He is not flaming me,
> nor insulting me. Many have said that I am a bully. I can understand
> why they would say this, considering I do want it all, and I have made
> this very clear in personal threatening emails that were intended to be
> personal and not referenced in a public arena such as this. As far as
> uniting my factions, I am not personally aware that I have any factions
> to unite. I’m pretty much alone in this, but the Divine Chief Lux E
> Tenebraris (or Lvx et Nox, a Thelemic reference) has told me that I am
> destined to either own the entire Golden Dawn name and all the orders
> that wish to use it, or I am to destroy all such orders. Being the
> devoted servant of my Divine Chiefs, I can do no less then their will.
> gdtruthsee goes on to say that the following statement by Robert is
> also "flaming":
> Robert says: "Mr. Griffin is alleged to have once said "If I cannot own
> it all, I will destroy it.""
> This, again, is a statement of fact. I have said this on the phone and
> by email to Chic personally, as well as to Robert and many of his
> brethren at the Esoteric Order of the Golden Dawn. I have been saying
> this for ten years. Just so there is no confusion, allow me to say it
> again:
> If I cannot own it all, I will destroy it.
> GDTruthSee also says this is a flame:
> Robert says: "David Griffin and the Authentic Hermetic Order of the
> Golden Dawn have done nothing but tried to control, threaten and
> deprive everyone else of their right to be themselves."
> This is also true, for reasons I have already explained.
> Robert says: "Next, we see a hate site re-appear on alt.
> Magick…directed at Chic Cicero… But who would put up such as
> site…Well, it would need to be someone threatened by Chic’s lawsuit
> against David Griffin. Why else?"
> This too is not a flame. I, David Griffin, am the author of the "Don
> Cicero" site. This is obvious when you look at the source code and see
> that I placed "EOGD" in the meta tags. It was later explained to me
> that meta tag are for search engines, and are placed there
> intentionally by the author of the HTML in order or bring people to the
> site from the search engines. Obviously, I felt pretty dumb after this
> was explained to me. I’m not very proficient with HTML, my whole
> website was built by someone else who left my Order when they found out
> I was a Nazi, you see, so I had no one to turn to but myself when I
> decided to make the Don Cicero site.
> GDTruthSee goes on to state that:
> Robert says: "This association with Nazism imaginary or real on the
> part of David Griffin may explain on a deeper level why he so much
> wants to control the Golden Dawn, and why it may have been necessary
> for Chic Cicero who is the legal owner of the US trademark to file a
> lawsuit against Mr. Griffin. Control was a big part of Hitler’s
> mentality."
> Is a flame. Actually I think it is a good point. People often ask me
> "How do you feel about being compared to Adolph Hitler". Well, I’ll
> tell you. I consider it a tremendous honor to have accomplished so
> much that my name is mentioned even in the same sentence with my
> beloved Furor. Everyone who has spoken with me at length, and everyone
> I’ve worked with, knows about my obsession with the Nazi party. Some
> dismiss it as a weird quark, but I assure you it is a large part of my
> personality and past. Robert is clearly saying these things because he
> has heard from authors I’ve worked with, such as Nick Ferrel, and of
> course Tommy Lee and all my members in Europe that I’ve lost when I
> admitted openly that I did dress up as Hitler and get my picture taken
> for newspapers on purpose. Again, not a flame.
> GDTruthSee brings up this one too:
> Robert says: "I do not accept that anyone including Mr. Griffin who is
> doing the Great Work would even for a moment be part of any such Nazi
> movement. This is pure propaganda and I reject it and ask you to do the
> same."
> Now this, I must admit, borders on flaming. Why should the Great Work
> be exclusive to the Allies? Why can’t those of us who follow the way
> of megalomania and genetic cleansing be a part of the Golden Dawn
> family? Yes, this statement does cut a bit close to the bone, but I
> believe that one day Robert will come to realize that true acceptance
> means even excepting Nazis to the table. While I do appreciate him
> forgiving me and giving me the benefit of the doubt, I do feel very
> discriminated against. I am proud of my Nazi heritage and I wish that
> you would respect that.
> GDTruthsee then quoted this one:
> Robert: "Well, there has been a great deal of confusion about the
> connection if any with the Golden Dawn and Nazism…. several people
> have aired concern that the Golden dawn has a Nazi basis, it does not,
> or should I say the Esoteric Order of the Golden Dawn is anti-nazi."
> Again, this is a statement of fact. Robert’s Order is anti-Nazi. This
> must be one of the reasons why GDTruthSee thinks Robert is flaming me
> personally, with me being a Nazi and all.
> GDTruthSee says this is flaming:
> Robert says: "The Golden Dawn…Enemy of Nazism! The Golden Dawn and
> Nazism are enemies both in nature and in practice, and the very essence
> of either philosophy are diametrically opposed to one another. In the
> past some political groups have employed occult methods to fuel their
> political agenda, most notable is the Nazis party; even today there are
> some groups whom claim the Golden Dawn name and share affiliation with
> the Nazi party….For alleged evidence of Golden Dawn Nazism click
> here: http://hogd666.50megs.com/"
> Again, this is not flaming. I consider this free advertising, really.
> In fact, that Griffin is a Nazi site was the inspiration for my own Don
> Cicero site. It is also how many other Nazis in the occult came to
> view me as a friend. Obviously, they didn’t join my team though. They
> all was to be the sole Chief Adept of the only Golden Dawn too.
> This goes on for a while and I don’t really have the attention span to
> go on, but I hope you get my point.
> In conclusion I will say this: GDTruthSee, please stop pretending to
> be writing on my behalf, you worthless ugly prick asshole pathetic
> excuse for a phony apologist, who’s dick is so small he could fit it in
> a key hole, who’s mother is so cheap she makes Walmart look like Rodeo
> Drive, and who is so fat he makes Gilbert Grape’s mom look like Kate
> Moss. Now THAT is flaming. Asshole. Fucker. Piece of Shit. I hate
> you and I was you to die, GDTruthsee, and I fucked your wife last
> night. She was horrible.
> David Griffin,
> Proud Nazi and Chief Adept
> of the Authentic Order of the Golden Dawn
yes, this guy is *defintely* David Griffin. lol
A
The referenced post is an obvious forgery and could not have been
written by David Griffin. The impersonation of Mr. Griffin making
ridiculous and outrageous statements is a ploy that has frequently been
used in the ongoing defamation campaign against Mr. Griffin and the
Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn.
The referenced post is but the latest in an ongoing defamation campaign
being waged against the Rosicrucian Order of AO and its Chief Adept,
Mr. David Griffin. This defamation campaign has been conclusively
linked to Mr. Robert Zink, lisenced by Chic Cicero, by the publication
of statements made by Mr. Zink on the Esoteric Order of the Golden Dawn
web site and public Yahoo forum. A brief resume of a small selection of
the evidence linking Mr. Zink, licensed by Mr. Cicero to the ongoing
defamation campaign follows below, with URL links for easy
authentication of his authorship of statements attributed to him.
Why is this defamation waged against Mr. Griffin and the A+O? David
Griffin is the owner of the European and Canadian Hermetic Order of the
Golden Dawn trademark and co-owner of the HOGD trademark in the USA by
contractual agreement, and the leader of the Hermetic Order of the
Golden Dawn, the Outer Order of the Rosicrucian Order of A+O. Attacks
broke out against Mr. Griffin following his having received
documents regarding the teachings of the Grades beyond the Second Order
for which the RR+AC must prepare the Adept. This permitted Mr. Griffin
to reform of the A+O’s Second Order (RR+AC) so that it correctly
prepares the Adept for higher teachings beyond the Grade of 7=4, and
supplementing materials which had been revealed by Crowley and
published by Regardie with materials from earlier Rosicrucian sources
under the guidance of a physical, ancient, and secret, European
alchemical order.
A number of American orders using only materials published by Regardie
felt clearly threatened by the A+O’s successful reformation of the
RR+AC, integrating substantial magical and alchemical materials from
earlier, Rosicrucian sources under the guidance and tutelage of an
extremely secretive and ancient, continental European alchemical order.
This was necessary due to the publication of the formerly secret,
magical teachings of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn by Aleister
Crowey and Israel Regardie. Several esoteric orders which teach little
more than these well known and published materials, obviously felt
threatened by Mr. Griffin’s accomplishment, particularly Chic Cicero of
the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, Inc. In response, Mr. Cicero
formed an alliance against the Rosicrucian Order of A+O by licensing
several groups to use the HOGD trademark, including groups which
practice dubious forms of astral or self-initiation, mix the published
teachings of the HOGD with Taoism and Aleister Crowley’s Thelema, and
in the case of EOGD whose leader is of questionable moral character
In a further attack on the Rosicrucian Order of A+O, Mr. Cicero
recently filed a frivolous lawsuit against the A+O in US Federal Court,
in a attempt to deprive the A+O of its legitimate trademark rights to
the name of its outer order, the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn in
the USA, despite Mr. Cicero’s decade old, contractual obligations with
the A+O in this regard. Mr. Cicero recently suffered severe legal
setbacks in this litigation, thus spawning intensified defamation
attacks against both the A+O and its Chief Adept, David Griffin, on the
internet. It is only in the light of these events that one can better
understand the orchestrated internet defamation campaign promoted by
Cicero lisencee, Robert Zink.
Below follows a synopsis of a part of the evidence linking Robert Zink,
sponsored by Chic Cicero, to the ongoing defamation campaign against
David Griffin and the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn (A+O). These
are not fabricated statements. URL links are included so that Mr.
Zink’s authorship, under his well known aliases as as Zanoni49 and
Frater PDR, may be easily verified:
In response to having been linked to the ongoing defamation campaign
against Mr. Griffin and the A+O, Mr. Zink recently published
a disingenuous appeal to end what he called the "nasty flame wars,"
stating at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/golden-dawn-forum/message/16986
"The Esoteric Order of the Golden Dawn is against any internet flame
wars and or propaganda websites….We want these nasty flame wars to
end and encourage all our members who may or may not have participated
in such negative posting to cease."
This sounds much like the deceptive official statement that
Chic Cicero, sponsor of Robert Zink, makes on his Hermetic Order of the
Golden Dawn, Inc. web site:
http://www.hermeticgoldendawn.org/trademark.htm
"We are opposed to the deliberate harassing of authors, groups,
fraternities, etc."
"We are opposed to… internet slander or abuse, or other manipulative
tactics."
Despite these misleading disavowals, the legal harassment by Chic
Cicero and the defamation campaign linked to Robert Zink continue until
today!
Having once been exposed and his credibility in jeopardy, Robert Zink
recently issued a second deceitful statement, swearing:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/golden-dawn-forum/message/17009
"I stand before each and every one of you and can say completely
and honestly that I have never posted a flame post, negative website
or used an anonymous -mailer. I call upon those who make
blind accusations against me or the order that I serve, to provide
hard, cold concrete evidence that I have participated in these
internet flame wars. Whatever I say, I say as myself (Frater PDR) or my
handle Zanoni49."
Here is some of this evidence:
On the one hand, Robert Zink declares:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/golden-dawn-forum/message/17009
"I don’t need to agree with everything Mr. Cicero or Mr.Griffin, Mr.
Webster or anyone else in order for me to call them
brother."
and swears:
"I have never posted a flame post, negative website or used an
anonymous -mailer."
On the other hand, Mr. Zink previously published the following
statements in his official capacity as the moderator of the Esoteric
Order of the Golden Dawn Yahoo forum:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/golden-dawn-forum/message/16581
"Griffen is a bully. He wants it all and will create enemies to unite
his factions."
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/golden-dawn-forum/message/16929
"Mr. Griffin is alledged to have once said "If I cannont own it all, I
will destroy it."
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/golden-dawn-forum/message/16929
"David Griffin and the Authentic Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn have
done nothing but tried to control, threaten and
deprive everyone else of their right to be themselves."
When an inflammatory web site recently appeared on the internet
defaming Chic Cicero, Mr. Zink, completely without evidence, attacked
Mr. Griffin as follows on the official EOGD forum:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/golden-dawn-forum/message/16815
"Next, we see a hate site re-appear on alt. Magick…directed at Chic
Cicero… But who would put up such as site…Well, it would need to be
someone threatened by Chic’s lawsuit against David Griffin. Why else?
They don’t want to see the
community come together, because if we do, as a GD community, then the
Griffen/Highlander theory would be null. (There can only be ONE)."
In a deceptive attempt to distance himself after having been linked the
defamation campaign, Mr. Zink recently recently wrote:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/golden-dawn-forum/message/16986
"I see no evidence to believe that Mr. Griffin is involved
with anything that is Nazi. This is pure propaganda and I reject it and
ask you to do the same."
Yet this is the same Robert Zink who disingenuously once wrote, again
as Chief of the EOGD:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/golden-dawn-forum/message/16857
"This association with Nazism imaginary or real on the part of
David Grifin may explain on a deeper level why he so much wants to
cotrol the Golden Dawn, and why it may have been necessary for Chic
Cicero who is the legal owner of the US trademark to file a lawsuit
against Mr. Griffin. Control was a big part of Hitlers mentality."
Robert Zink now admits that this latter statement was nothing more than
"pure propaganda." Obviously, Mr. Zink has lost most credibility by
making such wild and contradictory statements.
Mr. Zink also recently wrote:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/golden-dawn-forum/message/16986
"I do not accept that anyone including Mr. Griffin who is doing the
Great Work would even for a moment be part of any such Nazi
movement. This is pure propaganda and I reject it and ask you to do the
same.
Yet this is the same Robert Zink, who wrote just months ago in an
official capacity.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/golden-dawn-forum/message/16723
"Well, there has been a great deal of confusion about the connection if
any with the Golden Dawn and Nazism…. several people have aired
concern that the Golden dawn has a Nazi basis, it does not, or should I
say the Esoteric
Order of the Golden Dawn is anti-nazi."
Recently, Mr. Zink further wrote:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/golden-dawn-forum/message/16986
"In the last year or so there have been several websites
proclaiming that Mr. Griffin is a Nazi. I do not condone these
websites."
and:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/golden-dawn-forum/message/17009
I stand before each and every one of you and can say completely
and honestly that I have never posted a… negative website.
Yet this is the same Robert Zink proven to have, advertised, promote
and propagated just such a web site!
Robert Zink, in his capacity as Chief, wrote on the official Esoteric
Order of the Golden Dawn blog:
http://golden-dawn.blogspot.com/2005_02_12_golden-dawn_archive.html
"The Golden Dawn…Enemy of Nazism!
The Golden Dawn and Nazism are enemies both in nature and in practice,
and the very essence of either philosophy are diametrically opposed to
one another. In the past
…
read more »
Actually…. obviously you don’t already know this… it isn’t actually
appropriate to publicly deem a lawsuit "frivalous" before a judge
and/or jury of your peers deems it the same.
To do so before-hand exposes your fear of the outcome, not the air of
confidence you try to cultivate.
And further, you apparantly think everyone reading this is a complete
and utter moron if you think you need to come out and clarify that the
other of the root-post here is not actually David Griffin.
The real author and I were ol’ drinkin’ buddies in Nam and I happen to
know that he intended it to be satyrical. Then you come out and say
"that’s not David Griffin".
Did you ask him first, ya moron? Did you call him up first and say
"Hey Dave, you didn’t actually come out and say all of the things that
are on your mind, did you?" before you made this clarification?
So there you have it, ladies and gentlemen… I’m betting mostly
gentlemen…. maybe not so gentle, but my point is, these people are
idiots. They’d have to be to stick with this fool after his bumbling
"err… I was dressing up as Hitler to make a point… I’m not a
racist" that cost him so many of his members.
I notice no one comes out and says "Griffin is not a Nazi," and no one
comes out and says "Griffin didn’t dress up as Hitler and have his
picture taken for newspapers at Berkley." No.
Those who care and are paying attention (I’m sure there’s one or two of
such weirdos out there) know that your *defense* is "This picture was
taken out of context". HA!
And what of the look of shock, horror and discust on the faces of the
people watching him?
Is that out of context too?